In the concluding section of Book II Chapter VIII Dr Hooker says:
"Two opinions therefore there are concerning sufficiency of Holy
Scripture, each extremely opposite unto the other and both repu-gnant to truth.
The schools of Rome teach Scripture to be so unsufficient, as if, except traditions were added, it did not contain all revealed and
supernatural truth, which absolutely is necessary for the children of men in this life to know that they may in the next be saved.
Others justly condemning this opinion grow likewise into dange-rous extemity, as if Scripture did not only contain all things in that kind necessary, "but all things simply", and in such sort that to do anything according to any other law were not only unne-cessary but even opposite unto salvation, unlawful and sinful.
...so we must likewise take great heed, lest in attributing unto Scripture more than it can have, the incredibility of that do cause even those things which indeed it hath most abundantly to be less reverently esteemed."
måndag, juni 28, 2010
lördag, juni 19, 2010
Tidigare svar
Beträffande "grundtext", så är det så att om det inte finns något original, så finns det ingen grundtext.
T.ex. skall jag spela Mozarts Ah, vous dirai-je maman (blinka lilla stjärna) så köper jag Henles utgåva efter manuskriptet, Mozarts egenhändiga. Samma med Schuberts Winterreise.
Men för Bibeln finns inga texter äldre än 2:a århundradet för NT och ett par århundraden äldre ändå för GT (Döda havs-rullarna).
Många av texterna i NT är ett sekel yngre än Paulos. En del tillägg är från Byzantinsk tid; 500-700-talet, en del från parisiskt 1100-tal.
Idé-historien är central för förståelsen. Fanns inte idén så kan det inte betyda det.
Beträffande porneía...
Sakral prostitution är inte prostitution i vår mening, utan KULT; 2:a Budet.
Roten por/per (Jonisk dialekt) finns på Sanskrit och är samma som vårt "föra", alltså: jag f ö r dig till slavmarknaden och säljer dig till templet – och tar karma-poäng för det! På grekiska har det ofta en nyans av "över havet". Slavar köptes långt ifrån.
Fenomenet förekommer fortfarande i Indien.
Kvinnan/slaven är alltså templets egendom – och eventuella pengar är en from gåva till templet. Gräsligt som det är.
I texter från 2:a århundradet synes den sakrala prostitutionen ha av-sakraliserats, flyttat ut på stan... Alltså blivit prostitution i vår sentida mening. Samtidigt blir ordet ett abstrakt substantiv, från att ha varit ett verb.
Porneía kan inte heller användas med en kvinna som subjekt; det är mannen som är pórnos/pornois, inte kvinnan.
Enligt antikens könsuppfattning kan kvinnan inte vara subjekt över huvud taget. Det är det alltid mannen som är. Vilket leder till för oss underliga konsekvenser, där kvinnan ibland står som for-mellt subjekt, i satser där hon blir a n v ä n d... För den inblandade kvinnan finns substantivet/adjektivet pornä.
Vad jag förstår är porneía och liknande ord v e r b t.ex. i Buden, och först i NT (2:a århundradets pseudo-epigrafier blir de under Hellenistiskt inflytande) abstrakta substantiv. Och det är det abstrakta substantivet som används i t.ex. lexica.
Beträffande "otukt" (alltså icke-tukt, bristande måtta/kyskhet) så är det – som andra abstrakta Begrepp (di gamla grekerna tänkte alltså inte abstrakt utan högst konkret) en teologiskt term från Skolastisk tid, ofta utbytbar mot hor, som i sin tur är ett legalt renässans-begrepp: dubbelt/enkelt hor (hor = por). Ordet verkar ha varit ovanligt innan 1917. 1526/1541 säger "hoor", respek-tive "otucktigheet" (Mark 7:21)...
Och, som sagt, i översättningar blandas termer och ord (och språk!) om varandra; porneía blir moixeía, blir hoor, blir otukt...
Många förändringar av de Heliga Texterna i anti-Modern riktning har också införts under inflytande av RSVs översättningsteori Dynamic Equivalence från 1940-talet. En del så sent som på 1970-talet.
Slutsatsen blir: att det är de ideologiskt o-intressanta passagerna som fortfarande översätts korrekt efter 2:a århundradets gamla pålitliga latinska översättning från Nord Afrika (ett afrikanskt latin).
T.ex. skall jag spela Mozarts Ah, vous dirai-je maman (blinka lilla stjärna) så köper jag Henles utgåva efter manuskriptet, Mozarts egenhändiga. Samma med Schuberts Winterreise.
Men för Bibeln finns inga texter äldre än 2:a århundradet för NT och ett par århundraden äldre ändå för GT (Döda havs-rullarna).
Många av texterna i NT är ett sekel yngre än Paulos. En del tillägg är från Byzantinsk tid; 500-700-talet, en del från parisiskt 1100-tal.
Idé-historien är central för förståelsen. Fanns inte idén så kan det inte betyda det.
Beträffande porneía...
Sakral prostitution är inte prostitution i vår mening, utan KULT; 2:a Budet.
Roten por/per (Jonisk dialekt) finns på Sanskrit och är samma som vårt "föra", alltså: jag f ö r dig till slavmarknaden och säljer dig till templet – och tar karma-poäng för det! På grekiska har det ofta en nyans av "över havet". Slavar köptes långt ifrån.
Fenomenet förekommer fortfarande i Indien.
Kvinnan/slaven är alltså templets egendom – och eventuella pengar är en from gåva till templet. Gräsligt som det är.
I texter från 2:a århundradet synes den sakrala prostitutionen ha av-sakraliserats, flyttat ut på stan... Alltså blivit prostitution i vår sentida mening. Samtidigt blir ordet ett abstrakt substantiv, från att ha varit ett verb.
Porneía kan inte heller användas med en kvinna som subjekt; det är mannen som är pórnos/pornois, inte kvinnan.
Enligt antikens könsuppfattning kan kvinnan inte vara subjekt över huvud taget. Det är det alltid mannen som är. Vilket leder till för oss underliga konsekvenser, där kvinnan ibland står som for-mellt subjekt, i satser där hon blir a n v ä n d... För den inblandade kvinnan finns substantivet/adjektivet pornä.
Vad jag förstår är porneía och liknande ord v e r b t.ex. i Buden, och först i NT (2:a århundradets pseudo-epigrafier blir de under Hellenistiskt inflytande) abstrakta substantiv. Och det är det abstrakta substantivet som används i t.ex. lexica.
Beträffande "otukt" (alltså icke-tukt, bristande måtta/kyskhet) så är det – som andra abstrakta Begrepp (di gamla grekerna tänkte alltså inte abstrakt utan högst konkret) en teologiskt term från Skolastisk tid, ofta utbytbar mot hor, som i sin tur är ett legalt renässans-begrepp: dubbelt/enkelt hor (hor = por). Ordet verkar ha varit ovanligt innan 1917. 1526/1541 säger "hoor", respek-tive "otucktigheet" (Mark 7:21)...
Och, som sagt, i översättningar blandas termer och ord (och språk!) om varandra; porneía blir moixeía, blir hoor, blir otukt...
Många förändringar av de Heliga Texterna i anti-Modern riktning har också införts under inflytande av RSVs översättningsteori Dynamic Equivalence från 1940-talet. En del så sent som på 1970-talet.
Slutsatsen blir: att det är de ideologiskt o-intressanta passagerna som fortfarande översätts korrekt efter 2:a århundradets gamla pålitliga latinska översättning från Nord Afrika (ett afrikanskt latin).
Frågor och Svar.
Q. ”Jag skrev för en tid sedan till dig och frågade angående en del begrepp i bibeln, särskilt det grekiska ordet 'porneia'. Du skickade mig ett schema över ordens användning i Bibeln. Det är en del saker jag skulle vilja fråga dig om.
Jag ser att du har skrivit om något du kallar för 'Buden'. Vad är det? Jag är, som jag sagt, ytterst lite kunnig om teologi, grekiska filosofier, historia osv. Kan ej grekiska. Jag försöker på egen hand att djupstudera bibeln och har mest bara 'den information att tillgå som jag kan googla mig fram till på Internet.”
A. 10 Gud Bud. Judarna kallar dem de 10 Orden.
Q. ”Eftersom NT är skrivet på grekiska så försöker jag att få reda på mer om hur man använde ord och begrepp på den tiden där. Hur man tänkte osv. Men det är mycket svårt att hitta riktigt utförliga beskrivningar och information som man kan lita på."
A. Finns knappast något. Det är (varierande - och instabila ;=) dogmatiska "förklaringar" som gäller. Akademin som helhet är sedan 1:a årtusendets mitt bemängd med nyplatonism: alltså gnosticism, essentialism och idévärldsföreställningar.
Q. "Jag har hittat en bok som heter "The family in Greek history" där man går igenom bl. a. ordet 'moicheia', dess etymologi och användning. Man tar bl. a. upp det du skrev om att detta behövde inte handla om äktenskapsbrott i vår betydelse utan om att en man förförde någon kvinna, fru, syster, ogift dotter osv. som bodde i samma hus som en annan man och var beroende av denne.”
A. Moixeía (jag transkriberar så, för att markera att 4:e ljudet är ett Jota, som i Spanskan) betyder svek. Inget annat. Nämligen svek mot Huset och Klanen, först Husbondens, i Ezraisk tid (från 398) varje mans och från Jesu tid inkluderande Husbonden. Hos Paulos medlemmarnas svek mot Hus-Församlingen (Kor 6:9-11).
Våra föreställningar om ”Incest” kommer från den nyplatonisti-ske Kejsar Ludvig den Fromme (nyplatonistiskt from, inte kristen) som tvingade kyrkomötet i Paris 829 att anta hans helt o-Bibliska lära om 7 Förbjudna led; en in-läsning av denna i grunden gnostiscistiska lära i just Leviticus 18…
Detta var delvis gällande svensk rätt ända till 1980, då Riksdagsledamoten, Rådmannen Inga Lindquist (m) genom en utredning fick det avskaffat.
Stället handlar i stället om Husbondens auktoritet (inkl. att döda Hushållets medlemmar, jfr. 5:e Budet, eller i svensk press ”hedersmord”) i sitt Hus; alltså: Du skall icke avtäcka (din moders, systers, svägerskas osv. blygd), dvs. Husfadrens blygd…
När 7:e Budet i Karolinsk tid omvandlades till Hustruns äktenskapsbrott (mannens står i 10:e Budet)... OBS! att räkningen har ändrats flera gånger och alla traditioner räknar olika, fanns alltså inte längre något bud om trohet mot Husbonden, och Dr Martin Luthers teologiska barnbarn fick uppfinna den s.k. Hustaflan 1579, som länge spökat i historieromantisk historieskriving…
Notera att i förmodern text beskrives ofta Evas dotter kvinnan, som subjekt trots att (även när) hon är objekt…
Q. ”När det gäller begreppet 'porneia' så verkar det mycket svårare att hitta någon utförligare beskrivning om hur det användes på denna tid. Det skulle ha att göra med prostitution – sär-skilt med slavar – som köptes och såldes. Men sedan hur det användes på den tiden är det svårt att få fram någon precis beskrivning av. Man har utvidgat detta begrepp till s.k. "otukt" senare. Jag undrar; har du något tips på litteratur – liknande den jag angett ovan – där man sakligt går igenom ordens etymologi och användning?”
A. Det bästa jag har funnit är Dictionnaire Étymologique de la Lange Grèque, 4 volymer 1966-1990, av Père Chantraine, m.fl. som på traditionellt franskt vis visar exempel på ordens härkomst, miljö, första kända uppträdande i språket, varierande användning över tiden, m.m. Alltså sådant som – ehuru självklart i Frankrike ända från le Grand Siècle – av engelsk-språkiga anti-moderna (nyplatonistiskt influerade) avfärdas som ”relativism” och ”post modernism”…
De engelskspråkiga lexikon, t.ex. Liddell-Scott, som finns är alla ny-platonistiska (Oxfords inflytande alltsedan 1100), dvs. sexualiserade, och därför oanvändbara.
Porneia har alltså gemensam rot med vårt ”föra” och finns även på Sanskrit. Ordet betyder alltså mycket konkret ”marknadsföra”, dvs. jag för dig till marknaden och säljer dig till Templet för sakral prostitution (och plockar karma-poäng för det). Detta förekommer ännu i Indien. På grekiska blir roten per- eller por- beroende på dialekt och ordet har en biton av ”över havet”, slavar köptes fjärran ifrån.
Q. ”Och även när det gäller andra grekiska ord som används i Bibeln. Jag tycker mig märka att det är svårt att – om man läser konservativt kristna skrifter – få fram sakliga och ärliga beskrivningar om hur det egentligen var.”
A. Kartan (i detta fall författarens personliga dogmatik) gäller alltid för mer än terrängen!
Q. ”Man vill gärna att det ska 'passa' in i den tolkning man ger orden i Bibeln. Jag vill ha en helt vetenskaplig och historisk beskrivning av orden användning i det vardagliga Grekland på den tiden. Om det går.”
A. Det finns i och för sig mycket material i form av de papyrer som hittats i kökkenmöddingar i Egypten sedan 1888 (Oxyrynchos). Oerhörda mängder av text, ofta privatbrev, vardagsjuridik, osv. Detta (till stor del opublicerade material) visar alltså hur orden uppfattades i dåtidens Pigeon-English; koíne, Pascalidu-svenska som en lärare sa… till stor del identiskt med Bibelns grekiska, alltså.
Däremot inte med dåtidens artificiella akademiska grekiska, som jag betvivlar någonsin har funnits i verkligheten (jag tror alltså att Kon-stan-tinó-polis alltid har hetat I-stan-bul på gatunivå ;=)
Bibelgrekiskan är alltså ett andra-språk, till stor del lärt på skolbänken (och därmed mera grammatikaliskt korrekt än ett första-språk inlärt på köksgolvet – och med större ordförråd). Den var världsspråket omkring år 0 och följande sekel.
Ett intressant exempel är den s.k. Codex Bezae i Cambridge, alltså en kopia (440-tal) efter (antagligen) Ireneos egen grekisk/latinska Evangeliebok i Lyon, där en Syrisk handelskoloni talade Syriska som barnkammarspråk, Grekiska bland sina vänner och kollegor, Latin med överheten, och kanske en smula Galliska, därtill…
När Evangelieboken skulle kopieras var sidorna något slitna, så att skrivaren fick rekonstruera både Grekiska och Latin (men behärskade inte någotdera ;=). Resultatet har ofta setts över axeln, men är ett utomordentligt spännande exempel på hur flerspråkiga miljöer fungerar.
Problemet med Bibeln är att redan 1:a årtusendets ”kristna” akademiker (= pla-tonister, från 1100 utropade till Kyrkans Fäder och Lärare) skrev på den akademiska grekiskan, som har mycket v i d a r e bemärkelser än koíne och framför allt än den teologiskt/tekniska specifika bibelgrekiskan.
Det blev alltså (mycket tidigt) missvisande, men gossarna var framför allt Ny-Platonister!
Ett mycket åskådligt exempel är epithumía; begär, som alltså på Bibelgrekska (alltid) är materiellt: Girighet (ett centralt Begrepp i Bibelen), men på akademisk grekiska kan var vilket begär som helst, och alltså innefatta även sexuellt begär => 1917:s begär-else…
(jag undra vem Else är?)
I äldre svenska översättningar förekommer heltvisst begär-else som ett teologiskt begrepp, men översättningarna av epithumía blir oftast rätt, t.ex. i 1 Tess 4:1-7, som ännu i den danska Bibeln (liksom förr i den svenska) handlar om att behandla Nästan hederligt i affärer, och länge användes vid Biskopsvigningar, då som ”bevis” för Lateranum II:s läror om Obligatoriskt Celibat (snart uppfattad som Abstinens – för präster och biskopar), men numera används som ”bevis” (sedan NT 1981) för de anti-Modernas gnosticistiska läror om homosex.
Q. ”Du skriver att den rätta definitionen av ordet porneia är 'sakral prostitution el vanlig prostitution. Det tycker jag verkar stämma. Men jag kan dock inte helt hålla med dig om att man bara kan definiera begreppet så när man läser Bibeln. Det tycks ibland användas om andra saker också.”
A. Redan i GT kan porneia ses som moixeía; svek, mot Gud och beskrivas (hos t.ex. Hosea) som äktenskapsbrott... Det är att anmärka att den sentida tolkningen äktenskaps-brott kommer från Kejsar Ludvig den Fromme och det Karolingiska Imperiets kamp mot Klanerna och Polygamin.
Hövdingens andra-hustru beskrevs som ad-ultera eller super-ducta; till-förd. Adaltrach kallas hon i irländsk rätt från 1:a årtusendet, t.ex.
Poängen (för mig) är att denna hustru alltså var exogam (just vad grandoncle Ludvig ville åstadkomma med sina 7 Förbjudna leder ;=) medan normen ända in i vår tid (och ännu i för-Moderna kulturer/Samhällen/kretsar) har varit/är endogami; att parterna har en gemensam härstamning (ofta missförstådd som en abstrakt ”jämbördighet”).
Ny-platonisterna i Academia/Stat/Kyrka erkände alltså endast den endogama hustrun som Maka, men efter 1139 för präster inte alls (sönerna förklarades av Lateranum IV 1215 vara Bastarder och kunde inte bli präster, dvs. efterträda sin far). Döttrarna räknades (som vanligt hos gnosticister/platonister) inte...
Q. ”T ex i Korintierbrevet så används det om en man som har en förbindelse med sin styvmor. Detta knyter an till 3 Mosebok 20:10 ff. Där är en lista på incestuösa förbindelser. Vad jag har läst hade grekerna då inget ord för incest.”
A. Se ovan. För övrigt betvivlar jag starkt (av Idéhistoriska skäl) att 1 Kor 5 är autentiskt.
Q. ”Sen har vi 1 Tess.4:1.8. Där handlar det om förhållningssättet till den egna kroppen. Detta kan rymma flera tolkningar. Porneia ska vad jag förstår motsvara hebreiskans 'zenut'.”
A. Kom tyvärr inte så långt att jag lärde mig hebreiska (vilket var det jag hade sett fram emot). Men här är tydligen flera fällor. Exegeterna nuförtiden vill tolka tó eautoû skeûos; sitt eget käril/kropp, som käril/svagt käril/kvinna/hustru (så redan 1917) och skyller detta på ”rabbinerna” (det gör de ofta numera...) – men åtskilliga av dessa var ju (som i Islam) själva nyplatonister…
Q. ”Jag kan inte se annat än att de grekiska orden o begreppen inte alltid är en exakt motsvarighet till de hebreiska begreppen. Man använde grekiska för det var det språk man hade till hands för att kunna göra sig förstådd. Då fick man ta de ord som låg närmast till hands. Är det inte så?”
A. Jo, så är det alltid. Man överförde hebreiska teologiskt/tekniska begrepp till en annan språkstruktur. Och så blir det också inom ett språk, medan rådande språkteori inom Exegetiken är gnosticistisk/nyplatonistisk och menar att ordets betydelse är en och fix (en realie i idé-världen).
Därmed behandlas lustigt nog alla språk, ordklasser, tempi, osv. efter RSV 1947/1953inte alls som fixa, utan som utväxlingsbara med varandra. Översättarens (omedvetna) uppfattning styr!!! Text och tolkning blandas.
Jag ser att du har skrivit om något du kallar för 'Buden'. Vad är det? Jag är, som jag sagt, ytterst lite kunnig om teologi, grekiska filosofier, historia osv. Kan ej grekiska. Jag försöker på egen hand att djupstudera bibeln och har mest bara 'den information att tillgå som jag kan googla mig fram till på Internet.”
A. 10 Gud Bud. Judarna kallar dem de 10 Orden.
Q. ”Eftersom NT är skrivet på grekiska så försöker jag att få reda på mer om hur man använde ord och begrepp på den tiden där. Hur man tänkte osv. Men det är mycket svårt att hitta riktigt utförliga beskrivningar och information som man kan lita på."
A. Finns knappast något. Det är (varierande - och instabila ;=) dogmatiska "förklaringar" som gäller. Akademin som helhet är sedan 1:a årtusendets mitt bemängd med nyplatonism: alltså gnosticism, essentialism och idévärldsföreställningar.
Q. "Jag har hittat en bok som heter "The family in Greek history" där man går igenom bl. a. ordet 'moicheia', dess etymologi och användning. Man tar bl. a. upp det du skrev om att detta behövde inte handla om äktenskapsbrott i vår betydelse utan om att en man förförde någon kvinna, fru, syster, ogift dotter osv. som bodde i samma hus som en annan man och var beroende av denne.”
A. Moixeía (jag transkriberar så, för att markera att 4:e ljudet är ett Jota, som i Spanskan) betyder svek. Inget annat. Nämligen svek mot Huset och Klanen, först Husbondens, i Ezraisk tid (från 398) varje mans och från Jesu tid inkluderande Husbonden. Hos Paulos medlemmarnas svek mot Hus-Församlingen (Kor 6:9-11).
Våra föreställningar om ”Incest” kommer från den nyplatonisti-ske Kejsar Ludvig den Fromme (nyplatonistiskt from, inte kristen) som tvingade kyrkomötet i Paris 829 att anta hans helt o-Bibliska lära om 7 Förbjudna led; en in-läsning av denna i grunden gnostiscistiska lära i just Leviticus 18…
Detta var delvis gällande svensk rätt ända till 1980, då Riksdagsledamoten, Rådmannen Inga Lindquist (m) genom en utredning fick det avskaffat.
Stället handlar i stället om Husbondens auktoritet (inkl. att döda Hushållets medlemmar, jfr. 5:e Budet, eller i svensk press ”hedersmord”) i sitt Hus; alltså: Du skall icke avtäcka (din moders, systers, svägerskas osv. blygd), dvs. Husfadrens blygd…
När 7:e Budet i Karolinsk tid omvandlades till Hustruns äktenskapsbrott (mannens står i 10:e Budet)... OBS! att räkningen har ändrats flera gånger och alla traditioner räknar olika, fanns alltså inte längre något bud om trohet mot Husbonden, och Dr Martin Luthers teologiska barnbarn fick uppfinna den s.k. Hustaflan 1579, som länge spökat i historieromantisk historieskriving…
Notera att i förmodern text beskrives ofta Evas dotter kvinnan, som subjekt trots att (även när) hon är objekt…
Q. ”När det gäller begreppet 'porneia' så verkar det mycket svårare att hitta någon utförligare beskrivning om hur det användes på denna tid. Det skulle ha att göra med prostitution – sär-skilt med slavar – som köptes och såldes. Men sedan hur det användes på den tiden är det svårt att få fram någon precis beskrivning av. Man har utvidgat detta begrepp till s.k. "otukt" senare. Jag undrar; har du något tips på litteratur – liknande den jag angett ovan – där man sakligt går igenom ordens etymologi och användning?”
A. Det bästa jag har funnit är Dictionnaire Étymologique de la Lange Grèque, 4 volymer 1966-1990, av Père Chantraine, m.fl. som på traditionellt franskt vis visar exempel på ordens härkomst, miljö, första kända uppträdande i språket, varierande användning över tiden, m.m. Alltså sådant som – ehuru självklart i Frankrike ända från le Grand Siècle – av engelsk-språkiga anti-moderna (nyplatonistiskt influerade) avfärdas som ”relativism” och ”post modernism”…
De engelskspråkiga lexikon, t.ex. Liddell-Scott, som finns är alla ny-platonistiska (Oxfords inflytande alltsedan 1100), dvs. sexualiserade, och därför oanvändbara.
Porneia har alltså gemensam rot med vårt ”föra” och finns även på Sanskrit. Ordet betyder alltså mycket konkret ”marknadsföra”, dvs. jag för dig till marknaden och säljer dig till Templet för sakral prostitution (och plockar karma-poäng för det). Detta förekommer ännu i Indien. På grekiska blir roten per- eller por- beroende på dialekt och ordet har en biton av ”över havet”, slavar köptes fjärran ifrån.
Q. ”Och även när det gäller andra grekiska ord som används i Bibeln. Jag tycker mig märka att det är svårt att – om man läser konservativt kristna skrifter – få fram sakliga och ärliga beskrivningar om hur det egentligen var.”
A. Kartan (i detta fall författarens personliga dogmatik) gäller alltid för mer än terrängen!
Q. ”Man vill gärna att det ska 'passa' in i den tolkning man ger orden i Bibeln. Jag vill ha en helt vetenskaplig och historisk beskrivning av orden användning i det vardagliga Grekland på den tiden. Om det går.”
A. Det finns i och för sig mycket material i form av de papyrer som hittats i kökkenmöddingar i Egypten sedan 1888 (Oxyrynchos). Oerhörda mängder av text, ofta privatbrev, vardagsjuridik, osv. Detta (till stor del opublicerade material) visar alltså hur orden uppfattades i dåtidens Pigeon-English; koíne, Pascalidu-svenska som en lärare sa… till stor del identiskt med Bibelns grekiska, alltså.
Däremot inte med dåtidens artificiella akademiska grekiska, som jag betvivlar någonsin har funnits i verkligheten (jag tror alltså att Kon-stan-tinó-polis alltid har hetat I-stan-bul på gatunivå ;=)
Bibelgrekiskan är alltså ett andra-språk, till stor del lärt på skolbänken (och därmed mera grammatikaliskt korrekt än ett första-språk inlärt på köksgolvet – och med större ordförråd). Den var världsspråket omkring år 0 och följande sekel.
Ett intressant exempel är den s.k. Codex Bezae i Cambridge, alltså en kopia (440-tal) efter (antagligen) Ireneos egen grekisk/latinska Evangeliebok i Lyon, där en Syrisk handelskoloni talade Syriska som barnkammarspråk, Grekiska bland sina vänner och kollegor, Latin med överheten, och kanske en smula Galliska, därtill…
När Evangelieboken skulle kopieras var sidorna något slitna, så att skrivaren fick rekonstruera både Grekiska och Latin (men behärskade inte någotdera ;=). Resultatet har ofta setts över axeln, men är ett utomordentligt spännande exempel på hur flerspråkiga miljöer fungerar.
Problemet med Bibeln är att redan 1:a årtusendets ”kristna” akademiker (= pla-tonister, från 1100 utropade till Kyrkans Fäder och Lärare) skrev på den akademiska grekiskan, som har mycket v i d a r e bemärkelser än koíne och framför allt än den teologiskt/tekniska specifika bibelgrekiskan.
Det blev alltså (mycket tidigt) missvisande, men gossarna var framför allt Ny-Platonister!
Ett mycket åskådligt exempel är epithumía; begär, som alltså på Bibelgrekska (alltid) är materiellt: Girighet (ett centralt Begrepp i Bibelen), men på akademisk grekiska kan var vilket begär som helst, och alltså innefatta även sexuellt begär => 1917:s begär-else…
(jag undra vem Else är?)
I äldre svenska översättningar förekommer heltvisst begär-else som ett teologiskt begrepp, men översättningarna av epithumía blir oftast rätt, t.ex. i 1 Tess 4:1-7, som ännu i den danska Bibeln (liksom förr i den svenska) handlar om att behandla Nästan hederligt i affärer, och länge användes vid Biskopsvigningar, då som ”bevis” för Lateranum II:s läror om Obligatoriskt Celibat (snart uppfattad som Abstinens – för präster och biskopar), men numera används som ”bevis” (sedan NT 1981) för de anti-Modernas gnosticistiska läror om homosex.
Q. ”Du skriver att den rätta definitionen av ordet porneia är 'sakral prostitution el vanlig prostitution. Det tycker jag verkar stämma. Men jag kan dock inte helt hålla med dig om att man bara kan definiera begreppet så när man läser Bibeln. Det tycks ibland användas om andra saker också.”
A. Redan i GT kan porneia ses som moixeía; svek, mot Gud och beskrivas (hos t.ex. Hosea) som äktenskapsbrott... Det är att anmärka att den sentida tolkningen äktenskaps-brott kommer från Kejsar Ludvig den Fromme och det Karolingiska Imperiets kamp mot Klanerna och Polygamin.
Hövdingens andra-hustru beskrevs som ad-ultera eller super-ducta; till-förd. Adaltrach kallas hon i irländsk rätt från 1:a årtusendet, t.ex.
Poängen (för mig) är att denna hustru alltså var exogam (just vad grandoncle Ludvig ville åstadkomma med sina 7 Förbjudna leder ;=) medan normen ända in i vår tid (och ännu i för-Moderna kulturer/Samhällen/kretsar) har varit/är endogami; att parterna har en gemensam härstamning (ofta missförstådd som en abstrakt ”jämbördighet”).
Ny-platonisterna i Academia/Stat/Kyrka erkände alltså endast den endogama hustrun som Maka, men efter 1139 för präster inte alls (sönerna förklarades av Lateranum IV 1215 vara Bastarder och kunde inte bli präster, dvs. efterträda sin far). Döttrarna räknades (som vanligt hos gnosticister/platonister) inte...
Q. ”T ex i Korintierbrevet så används det om en man som har en förbindelse med sin styvmor. Detta knyter an till 3 Mosebok 20:10 ff. Där är en lista på incestuösa förbindelser. Vad jag har läst hade grekerna då inget ord för incest.”
A. Se ovan. För övrigt betvivlar jag starkt (av Idéhistoriska skäl) att 1 Kor 5 är autentiskt.
Q. ”Sen har vi 1 Tess.4:1.8. Där handlar det om förhållningssättet till den egna kroppen. Detta kan rymma flera tolkningar. Porneia ska vad jag förstår motsvara hebreiskans 'zenut'.”
A. Kom tyvärr inte så långt att jag lärde mig hebreiska (vilket var det jag hade sett fram emot). Men här är tydligen flera fällor. Exegeterna nuförtiden vill tolka tó eautoû skeûos; sitt eget käril/kropp, som käril/svagt käril/kvinna/hustru (så redan 1917) och skyller detta på ”rabbinerna” (det gör de ofta numera...) – men åtskilliga av dessa var ju (som i Islam) själva nyplatonister…
Q. ”Jag kan inte se annat än att de grekiska orden o begreppen inte alltid är en exakt motsvarighet till de hebreiska begreppen. Man använde grekiska för det var det språk man hade till hands för att kunna göra sig förstådd. Då fick man ta de ord som låg närmast till hands. Är det inte så?”
A. Jo, så är det alltid. Man överförde hebreiska teologiskt/tekniska begrepp till en annan språkstruktur. Och så blir det också inom ett språk, medan rådande språkteori inom Exegetiken är gnosticistisk/nyplatonistisk och menar att ordets betydelse är en och fix (en realie i idé-världen).
Därmed behandlas lustigt nog alla språk, ordklasser, tempi, osv. efter RSV 1947/1953inte alls som fixa, utan som utväxlingsbara med varandra. Översättarens (omedvetna) uppfattning styr!!! Text och tolkning blandas.
onsdag, juni 09, 2010
The Woman in the Temple Yard
A note on alias John 7:53 to 8:1, sometimes used as a proof text for “love the sinner, hate the sin”. This is n o t original to the gospel of John, as many take for granted.
Codex Bezae shows that it originally followed Luke 21:37, con-trasting Judas's treason toward his Master to the woman's different kind of faithlessness toward her, the Husbander/Pater familias.
The parallel stories about Abram and Sarah in Genesis 12:11ff, 20:2ff and Isaak and Rebekka in 26:7ff show, however, that the point was precisely the approval or not of the Pater familias.
Obviously, Jesus' attitude was too lax for the Philosophically minded and the story of the woman in the Temple yard was cut out around 200 AD (out of the Alexandrian redaction), and "re-stored" only in the 5th to 6th century Byzantine redaction, and then to three different places in the gospel of John 7:36, 7:53-8:11 and 21:25, which lacks the Matt 5 and 19 stories about 7th Commandment moixeia.
This sometimes proof text for “love the sinner, hate the sin” is thus rather instable, and as such, a proof of the continuous pro-grammatic manipulation for Ecclesiological and Socio Political purposes of the Sacred Text in European Neo Platonist Academia, since the Imperial Academia Palatina at Aachen/Aix la Chapelle 1200 years ago (continued by its successors at Fulda, Oxford and Sorbonne).
Codex Bezae shows that it originally followed Luke 21:37, con-trasting Judas's treason toward his Master to the woman's different kind of faithlessness toward her, the Husbander/Pater familias.
The parallel stories about Abram and Sarah in Genesis 12:11ff, 20:2ff and Isaak and Rebekka in 26:7ff show, however, that the point was precisely the approval or not of the Pater familias.
Obviously, Jesus' attitude was too lax for the Philosophically minded and the story of the woman in the Temple yard was cut out around 200 AD (out of the Alexandrian redaction), and "re-stored" only in the 5th to 6th century Byzantine redaction, and then to three different places in the gospel of John 7:36, 7:53-8:11 and 21:25, which lacks the Matt 5 and 19 stories about 7th Commandment moixeia.
This sometimes proof text for “love the sinner, hate the sin” is thus rather instable, and as such, a proof of the continuous pro-grammatic manipulation for Ecclesiological and Socio Political purposes of the Sacred Text in European Neo Platonist Academia, since the Imperial Academia Palatina at Aachen/Aix la Chapelle 1200 years ago (continued by its successors at Fulda, Oxford and Sorbonne).
Possible Dreams in Swaziland
With this post I want to plug the work of my dear Blog friend Dr Mailthri Gonitelleke from Australia, who intermittentlly is a barefoot doc in Swaziland. Click on the Headline to see a video about his work!
söndag, juni 06, 2010
Comment's Policy
I have changed my policy for comments. Only Google accounts may hencewith comment, which should take care of Chinese porn...
29 Years Ago Today
Twenty nine years ago today, on June 5, 1981, the Center for
Disease Control's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report
(MMWR) published a report of five cases of Pneumocystis
carinii pneumonia (PCP) among previously healthy young
men in Los Angeles. All of the men were described as "homo-sexuals"; two had died.
And thusly were the first cases of what is now known as AIDS
introduced to the world.
Twenty nine years ago the numbers of those infected were most
likely small enough to have been brought under control had the
situation been treated like any other health issue.
Twenty nine years later the numbers of those infected represent
a world wide pandemic of disease that continues to claim life
after life, particularly in the parts of our world where access
to medicines and medical care is less than adequate. Control
remains a distant and elusive goal.
To our eternal regret and damnation, this medical condition was
not treated like any other health issue. Politics, prejudice, igno-
rance, stigma, and moralization were allowed to seize control
from science and medicine.
In the United States the first to be identified as infected repre-
sented the "four H" club: homosexuals, hemophiliacs, hookers and
Haitians. All were stigmatized. Even hemophiliacs who became in-
fected through infected blood products were treated as pariahs.
The stigma of AIDS persists to this day, affecting housing, employ-
ment, access to medical care, and ordinary social interaction.
Ignorance about how the syndrome of disease was transmitted
created an atmosphere of fear and distrust. When it is unclear
how disease is passed among us, we react and overreact rather
than seek to find the truth.
Politics immediately inserted an ugly twist to the situation. First
the syndrome was named GRID, which stood for Gay Related
Immune Deficiency. And with that naming an entire segment of
the population was further stigmatized and essentially dismissed.
Never had a medical condition been so directly connected to a group of people rather than a medical cause.
Two presidential administrations allowed politics to govern
everything from research to care rather than treat the situation
as a medical situation desperate for a proper medical response
rather than a political response. When a presidential adminis-
tration did attempt to address the problem, efforts were ham-
strung by the politics that controlled the Congressional branch
of government.
It seems the only way politics lost sway over the situation was
when things were truly out of control and had begun to threaten
more than just those infected.
Stigma resulted in people being fired from jobs, being evicted
from housing, being refused medical treatment (at one point even
including services after death such as autopsies and embalmings),
being ostracized from social groups and now keeping those who
may be infected from even finding out that information for further
fear of stigmatization by others who might subsequently learn of
their status.
Prejudice already existed against those perceived as different
from the majority. Add to that a medical condition that was
mistakenly presumed to be associated with those same groups,
and prejudice was multiplied. Gay men were already suspect to
most of the population. Hookers were on the margins already
as well. Haitians, being people of color, already knew about
prejudice. Even hemophiliacs were often viewed a being flawed
in some way because of their already existing medical condition.
When moralization gained a foothold in the mix, pretty much
the ultimate confluence of negativity prevailed. Certain
religious leaders were quick to claim God's judgment as the
source of disease. Other religious leaders jumped on the
existing bandwagon against gay men, prostitutes and anyone
else who did not fit within the bounds of their particular
definition of morality. Science and medical science were not
immune to the moralization, nor were the sources of funds that
might be used to address the health issue.
Moralization and stigma drove members of certain communities
underground rather than be subjected to the pain inflicted upon
them. Those who had acted in secret sought further secrecy for
protection. Secrecy and seeking medical care are often self ex-
cluding activities. Secrecy puts others, particularly women, at
great risk of infection. Infection rates reflect that fact all too
clearly.
Faith groups refused to offer some degree of stability to rela-
tionships by dismissing rather than blessing them. Those same
faith groups then condemned any who might seek relationships
without their blessing and further condemned those who were not
interested in being in a stable relationship. Refusing to provide
a source of stability in relationships and subsequently condem-
ning those same relationships enforces hypocrisy.
Some of us have been more intimately involved in this horrific
sequence of events and history than others. Many of us have lost
dozens if not hundreds of friends while we waited as cries for help
and medical attention went unanswered. Some generations sur-
vived decimation by the Vietnam War only to be further deci-
mated by death from this disease. Those of us who managed to
survive both now face the "normal" issues of aging and death....
I suppose the first were in training and preparation for our later
lives.
To her great credit in understanding the Gospel of Jesus Christ,
The Episcopal Church was among the leaders of faith groups first
responding to AIDS. We remain committed even though we often
mistakenly think that those living with HIV are no longer as pre-
sent in our pews. Some have even fallen into the trap of belie-
ving HIV/AIDS has "moved" to Africa, Asia and Central and South
America. HIV/AIDS has become a world-wide pandemic, but it has NEVER left the United States. There are areas in Province IV,
for example, with infection rates that rival sub-Saharan Africa.
Poverty, prejudice, stigma, ignorance and moralization continue
to hold sway wherever they can.
So on this 29th anniversary of the announcement that AIDS had
come to be among us, may we all pause in memory of those who
have died, pause in thanksgiving for those who continue to live
despite HIV, and pause to intercede for a vaccine and a cure to
be found in at least some of our lifetimes.
Pinched from the House of Deputies/Bishops' List with kind permission of Bruce Garner, Exec Council.
A short remark: 29 years ago my Grandmother was dying with Hodgkin's Syndrome, which is similar (Lymphome) to some as-pects of AIDS and believed at the time to be perhaps connected.
I remember talking about it to one of the first Medics in Gothen-burg who specialised in AIDS (he later died from it).
The link between Hemophilia, Haiti and AIDS is, of course, that in the 1970ies we bought blod from Haiti. Further, Immunity was believed to be constant over Time and across the Population!!! That we robbed the Earth's poorest people of their blod, obviou-sly didn't bother us.
Disease Control's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report
(MMWR) published a report of five cases of Pneumocystis
carinii pneumonia (PCP) among previously healthy young
men in Los Angeles. All of the men were described as "homo-sexuals"; two had died.
And thusly were the first cases of what is now known as AIDS
introduced to the world.
Twenty nine years ago the numbers of those infected were most
likely small enough to have been brought under control had the
situation been treated like any other health issue.
Twenty nine years later the numbers of those infected represent
a world wide pandemic of disease that continues to claim life
after life, particularly in the parts of our world where access
to medicines and medical care is less than adequate. Control
remains a distant and elusive goal.
To our eternal regret and damnation, this medical condition was
not treated like any other health issue. Politics, prejudice, igno-
rance, stigma, and moralization were allowed to seize control
from science and medicine.
In the United States the first to be identified as infected repre-
sented the "four H" club: homosexuals, hemophiliacs, hookers and
Haitians. All were stigmatized. Even hemophiliacs who became in-
fected through infected blood products were treated as pariahs.
The stigma of AIDS persists to this day, affecting housing, employ-
ment, access to medical care, and ordinary social interaction.
Ignorance about how the syndrome of disease was transmitted
created an atmosphere of fear and distrust. When it is unclear
how disease is passed among us, we react and overreact rather
than seek to find the truth.
Politics immediately inserted an ugly twist to the situation. First
the syndrome was named GRID, which stood for Gay Related
Immune Deficiency. And with that naming an entire segment of
the population was further stigmatized and essentially dismissed.
Never had a medical condition been so directly connected to a group of people rather than a medical cause.
Two presidential administrations allowed politics to govern
everything from research to care rather than treat the situation
as a medical situation desperate for a proper medical response
rather than a political response. When a presidential adminis-
tration did attempt to address the problem, efforts were ham-
strung by the politics that controlled the Congressional branch
of government.
It seems the only way politics lost sway over the situation was
when things were truly out of control and had begun to threaten
more than just those infected.
Stigma resulted in people being fired from jobs, being evicted
from housing, being refused medical treatment (at one point even
including services after death such as autopsies and embalmings),
being ostracized from social groups and now keeping those who
may be infected from even finding out that information for further
fear of stigmatization by others who might subsequently learn of
their status.
Prejudice already existed against those perceived as different
from the majority. Add to that a medical condition that was
mistakenly presumed to be associated with those same groups,
and prejudice was multiplied. Gay men were already suspect to
most of the population. Hookers were on the margins already
as well. Haitians, being people of color, already knew about
prejudice. Even hemophiliacs were often viewed a being flawed
in some way because of their already existing medical condition.
When moralization gained a foothold in the mix, pretty much
the ultimate confluence of negativity prevailed. Certain
religious leaders were quick to claim God's judgment as the
source of disease. Other religious leaders jumped on the
existing bandwagon against gay men, prostitutes and anyone
else who did not fit within the bounds of their particular
definition of morality. Science and medical science were not
immune to the moralization, nor were the sources of funds that
might be used to address the health issue.
Moralization and stigma drove members of certain communities
underground rather than be subjected to the pain inflicted upon
them. Those who had acted in secret sought further secrecy for
protection. Secrecy and seeking medical care are often self ex-
cluding activities. Secrecy puts others, particularly women, at
great risk of infection. Infection rates reflect that fact all too
clearly.
Faith groups refused to offer some degree of stability to rela-
tionships by dismissing rather than blessing them. Those same
faith groups then condemned any who might seek relationships
without their blessing and further condemned those who were not
interested in being in a stable relationship. Refusing to provide
a source of stability in relationships and subsequently condem-
ning those same relationships enforces hypocrisy.
Some of us have been more intimately involved in this horrific
sequence of events and history than others. Many of us have lost
dozens if not hundreds of friends while we waited as cries for help
and medical attention went unanswered. Some generations sur-
vived decimation by the Vietnam War only to be further deci-
mated by death from this disease. Those of us who managed to
survive both now face the "normal" issues of aging and death....
I suppose the first were in training and preparation for our later
lives.
To her great credit in understanding the Gospel of Jesus Christ,
The Episcopal Church was among the leaders of faith groups first
responding to AIDS. We remain committed even though we often
mistakenly think that those living with HIV are no longer as pre-
sent in our pews. Some have even fallen into the trap of belie-
ving HIV/AIDS has "moved" to Africa, Asia and Central and South
America. HIV/AIDS has become a world-wide pandemic, but it has NEVER left the United States. There are areas in Province IV,
for example, with infection rates that rival sub-Saharan Africa.
Poverty, prejudice, stigma, ignorance and moralization continue
to hold sway wherever they can.
So on this 29th anniversary of the announcement that AIDS had
come to be among us, may we all pause in memory of those who
have died, pause in thanksgiving for those who continue to live
despite HIV, and pause to intercede for a vaccine and a cure to
be found in at least some of our lifetimes.
Pinched from the House of Deputies/Bishops' List with kind permission of Bruce Garner, Exec Council.
A short remark: 29 years ago my Grandmother was dying with Hodgkin's Syndrome, which is similar (Lymphome) to some as-pects of AIDS and believed at the time to be perhaps connected.
I remember talking about it to one of the first Medics in Gothen-burg who specialised in AIDS (he later died from it).
The link between Hemophilia, Haiti and AIDS is, of course, that in the 1970ies we bought blod from Haiti. Further, Immunity was believed to be constant over Time and across the Population!!! That we robbed the Earth's poorest people of their blod, obviou-sly didn't bother us.
söndag, maj 30, 2010
To Christians Everywhere
If Christians are not willing to stand up for the rights and dignity of gays and lesbians, then are they willing to stand up for the rights and dignity of anyone?
Is our concern for human dignity and welfare limited to embryos and fetuses, and ends with birth?
How authentic is the universal call of Pentecost with its babel of languages coming together if we must add an asterisk with a footnote listing exceptions and preconditions?
Does the Great Commission mean anything other than a license for imperial conquest without the Great Commandment?
Did the Savior who forgave His murderers from the Cross without their asking limit His Love and Mercy to those who meet membership requirements, or to those who could pass a catechism exam?
Dough Blanchard alias Counterlight (link to the right).
Is our concern for human dignity and welfare limited to embryos and fetuses, and ends with birth?
How authentic is the universal call of Pentecost with its babel of languages coming together if we must add an asterisk with a footnote listing exceptions and preconditions?
Does the Great Commission mean anything other than a license for imperial conquest without the Great Commandment?
Did the Savior who forgave His murderers from the Cross without their asking limit His Love and Mercy to those who meet membership requirements, or to those who could pass a catechism exam?
Dough Blanchard alias Counterlight (link to the right).
Reflections
On Trinity: They took poetry and made it into a rule.
A reflection by Karl Barth (otherwise not a favourite):
The Word became flesh, and theologians made it words again.
Which reminds me of Paul Ricoeur's definition of Gnosticsim; to make a Symbol concrete again, like The Holy Grail, a Symbol believed by many to be a mere Artefact...
Found on The House of Deputies' and Bishop's List.
A reflection by Karl Barth (otherwise not a favourite):
The Word became flesh, and theologians made it words again.
Which reminds me of Paul Ricoeur's definition of Gnosticsim; to make a Symbol concrete again, like The Holy Grail, a Symbol believed by many to be a mere Artefact...
Found on The House of Deputies' and Bishop's List.
God Is Not A Problem
God Is Not A Problem
by Killian McDonnell, in Swift Lord, You are Not.
God is not a problem
I need to solve, not an
algebraic polynomial equation
I find complete before me,
with positive and negative numbers
I can add, subtract, multiply.
God is not a fortress
I can lay siege to and reduce.
God is not a confusion
I can place in order by my logic.
God's boundaries cannot be set,
like marking trees to fell.
God is the presence in which
I live, where the time between
what is in me and what
before me is real, but only God
can draw it. God is the mystery
I meet on the street, but cannot
lay hold of from the outside,
for God is my situation,
the condition I cannot stand
beyond, cannot view from a distance,
the presence I cannot make an object,
only enter on my knees.
This Poem was found on The House of Deputies' and Bishop's List.
by Killian McDonnell, in Swift Lord, You are Not.
God is not a problem
I need to solve, not an
algebraic polynomial equation
I find complete before me,
with positive and negative numbers
I can add, subtract, multiply.
God is not a fortress
I can lay siege to and reduce.
God is not a confusion
I can place in order by my logic.
God's boundaries cannot be set,
like marking trees to fell.
God is the presence in which
I live, where the time between
what is in me and what
before me is real, but only God
can draw it. God is the mystery
I meet on the street, but cannot
lay hold of from the outside,
for God is my situation,
the condition I cannot stand
beyond, cannot view from a distance,
the presence I cannot make an object,
only enter on my knees.
This Poem was found on The House of Deputies' and Bishop's List.
måndag, februari 22, 2010
Why Sarah Palin is a goddess
Pinched from The Mahablog
Michael Lind writes about mythological politics and the tea partiers, saying,
“This is the key to understanding the otherwise inexplicable accu-sations by the populist right that Barack Obama is a socialist or fascist or whatever, as well as fantasies about a global secular hu-manist conspiracy. We are dealing with a mythological mentality, based on simple and powerful archetypes.
Contemporary figures and current events are plugged into a framework that never changes. “King Charles (or King George) is threatening the rights of Englishmen” becomes “Barack Obama is promoting socialism” — or fascism, or monarchism, or daylight saving time.
As in other cases of mythological politics, like messianic Marx-ism, this kind of thinking is resistant to argument. If you disagree, then that simply proves that you are part of the conspiracy.
Inconvenient facts can be explained away by the true believers. It’s hard to come up with arguments that would persuade people who think that Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi are totalitarians to change their mind.”
This is something I’ve written about in the past. It’s important to understand that the political “thinking” of the True Believers on the Right is a thick soup of myth, allegory, and archetype. Stuff like, you know, facts, are irrelevant to them.
Lind traces the major themes of rightie mythology back to 18th century Britain, but in some ways I think you have to go back even further. The ur-myth that under-girds all the other myths is the old Zoroastrian struggle between the forces of Good and the forces of Evil. However, [with righties] “good” and “evil” are matters of intrinsic identity, not actions.
I remember Sunday School literature from the 1950s that showed images of Lenin, Stalin, and Khrushchev standing with Satan, while Jesus bestrode the United States, his arms wrapped protec-tively around a couple of innocent white American children. Even many who aren’t old enough (or Bible Belt enough) to have seen images like that have been influenced by the mythology such images represented.
If one believes America the Pure and Righteous is protected by Jesus, and America’s enemies are minions of Satan, then a great many other assumptions flow from that. Among these is the belief that public display of religious totems like Ten Commandments monuments is essential to keeping America “strong,” e.g., armo-red against demon enemies.
It also explains why the Christian Right wants obeisance to Jesus to be made compulsory. For them, religion is not about personal devotion or worship; it’s war.
And you’re either with ‘em or agin’ ‘em.
Further, as I’ve said, “good” and “evil” are understood to be intrinsic qualities that reside in certain individuals and groups regardless of what they do. One chooses to take the side of “good” by being loyal to the “good” tribe, a.k.a., “us.”
An example of the importance of archetypes in rightie thought can be found in the blogosphere’s reaction to homicides allegedly (she hasn’t been tried yet) committed by Alabama University professor Amy Bishop. Like most leftie bloggers I haven’t written about Bishop because, to me, it’s a crime story, and I rarely comment on crime stories.
But a number of rightie bloggers have blown Bishop up into a Big Bleeping Political Deal, pointedly calling her a “leftist” or a “socia-list.” How so? Apparently someone called Bishop a “socialist” on her RateMyProfessors page, so it must be true. Also, she went to Harvard.
In other words, we in Rational World have no way to know any-thing about Bishop’s political beliefs, or even if she has any. Furt-her, there is nothing about the homicides that suggests a political motive, so a rational person wouldn’t think of the homicides in political terms. Some are claiming a racial motive, because the three individuals killed were non-white, but one of the people she shot who survived is very obviously white. Since these were people Bishop knew, it’s not unreasonable to assume her motives were personal.
But bloggers who have pointed out there is no obvious political component to the Bishop homicides, notably Steve M and Steven Taylor, have been subject to vile counter-attacks from the Right for suggesting the homicides were not political.
The weird truth is, I don’t think the rightie bloggers calling Bishop a “leftist” have said she had a political motive. So why are rightie bloggers making such a Big Bleeping Deal about her alleged poli-tics? Because it so neatly fits the mythological archetype of “left-ist” and “socialist” that lives in their heads, that’s why. As the “A-merican Power” blogger explained, “I have never hypothesized on Bishop’s motives. It’s enough fascination at the simple truth of a Harvard leftist in league with some of our worst criminal murderers and jihadi terrorists.”
Criminal murderers and jihadi terrorists? She went to Harvard. What more do you need to know? People who go to Harvard are like that. And there need be no political motives, or any motives at all, for a “leftist” to be a violent, murdering criminal, because that’s just the way “leftists” are. See how it works?
In fact, suggesting any motivation at all to Bishop, even an evil and irrational motive, seems to enrage some righties, who equate understanding motive with making excuses for the murders. Rational people don’t think that way, of course, but we’re not talking about rational people. We’re talking about people whose worldview is entirely shaped by myth and archetype, not by reason.
Which brings me to why Sarah Palin is a goddess. By that I don’t mean she has actual godlike powers. I’m talking about her role in the rightie mythological cosmos, and why pointing out her obvio-us shortcomings will put no dents in the tea partiers’ loyalty to her.
By “goddess” I mean a goddess in something like (but not exactly) the tantric sense, in which a deity becomes an archetype for one’s own deepest nature. Palin, by contrast, is a near-perfect embodi-ment of an ideal. She is (to a rightie) beautiful, sexual, and mater-nal; she is powerful enough that the Evil Ones who live in Washing-ton and who speak seditious things on the Teevee must kowtow to her. Through her folksy speech and shooting skills she evokes other American archetypes from more wholesome, earlier times, like Daniel Boone. But she also wears modern clothes and has a Facebook page.
Like most tantric deities, Palin has has both benevolent and wrathful aspects. As a wrathful goddess she gives voice to her followers’ deepest fears and hates and resentments. But she also has a bright smile and sometimes carries a baby, showing a benevolent side. Her followers both love her and identify with her; she is an archetype representing their own deepest selves, or at least the selves they’d like to be.
She’s a goddess, I tell you. And because she is a goddess is makes no difference to her devotees that she has few real accomplish-ments, no coherent ideas, and probably doesn’t know Bern from Budapest. It does not matter if she writes crib notes on her hand and needs several months to think of a name of a newspaper she actually reads. In fact, it does not matter to them if she reads at all. Whatever she does is exactly right, because it is her doing it, and she is a goddess.
It’s important to understand this, because it shows us why it’s futile to treat Palin as just another politician or media star. It was pointless to make fun of the crib notes, for example. I doubt any-one could bring Palin down but Palin herself. If she somehow grossly and blatantly violated the ideal she represents, her follo-wers could turn on her. But until she does that, she is invincible in the eyes of the devoted.
There’s a long analysis of the tea party movement in today’s New York Times that’s worth a read. Essentially, the “movement” is a collection of fearful people grasping at incoherent ideas the way drowning people grasp at lifebuoys. It brings to mind what Eric Hoffer wrote in The True Believer (pp. 59-60):
“The power of a mass movement stems from the propensity of its followers for united action and self-sacrifice. … whether or not [organizations] develop into mass movements depends less on the doctrine they preach and the program they project than on the degree of their preoccupation with unity and the readiness for self-sacrifice. … Such diverse phenomena as a deprecation of the present, a facility for make-believe, a proneness to hate, a readi-ness to imitate, credulity, a readiness to attempt the impossible, and many others which crowd the minds of the intensely frustra-ted are, as we shall see, unifying agents and prompters of reckless-ness.”
Because the incoherent ideas the tea partiers grasp are plucked from the American psyche, those ideas can be traced back through earlier times in American history, as Lind says. But the ideas themselves are not the point, and so I disagree with Lind that understanding where ideas come from is key to understan-ding the tea party movement. What unifies the tea partiers is something primitive, pre-cognitive. As Hoffer says elsewhere in The True Believer, fearful people give up individual autonomy to become part of a movement, and within the movement they find the freedom to hate, bully, torment, and torture with impunity — and with the blessings of the goddess Sarah."
Click on the Headline!
Link to The New York Times
Michael Lind writes about mythological politics and the tea partiers, saying,
“This is the key to understanding the otherwise inexplicable accu-sations by the populist right that Barack Obama is a socialist or fascist or whatever, as well as fantasies about a global secular hu-manist conspiracy. We are dealing with a mythological mentality, based on simple and powerful archetypes.
Contemporary figures and current events are plugged into a framework that never changes. “King Charles (or King George) is threatening the rights of Englishmen” becomes “Barack Obama is promoting socialism” — or fascism, or monarchism, or daylight saving time.
As in other cases of mythological politics, like messianic Marx-ism, this kind of thinking is resistant to argument. If you disagree, then that simply proves that you are part of the conspiracy.
Inconvenient facts can be explained away by the true believers. It’s hard to come up with arguments that would persuade people who think that Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi are totalitarians to change their mind.”
This is something I’ve written about in the past. It’s important to understand that the political “thinking” of the True Believers on the Right is a thick soup of myth, allegory, and archetype. Stuff like, you know, facts, are irrelevant to them.
Lind traces the major themes of rightie mythology back to 18th century Britain, but in some ways I think you have to go back even further. The ur-myth that under-girds all the other myths is the old Zoroastrian struggle between the forces of Good and the forces of Evil. However, [with righties] “good” and “evil” are matters of intrinsic identity, not actions.
I remember Sunday School literature from the 1950s that showed images of Lenin, Stalin, and Khrushchev standing with Satan, while Jesus bestrode the United States, his arms wrapped protec-tively around a couple of innocent white American children. Even many who aren’t old enough (or Bible Belt enough) to have seen images like that have been influenced by the mythology such images represented.
If one believes America the Pure and Righteous is protected by Jesus, and America’s enemies are minions of Satan, then a great many other assumptions flow from that. Among these is the belief that public display of religious totems like Ten Commandments monuments is essential to keeping America “strong,” e.g., armo-red against demon enemies.
It also explains why the Christian Right wants obeisance to Jesus to be made compulsory. For them, religion is not about personal devotion or worship; it’s war.
And you’re either with ‘em or agin’ ‘em.
Further, as I’ve said, “good” and “evil” are understood to be intrinsic qualities that reside in certain individuals and groups regardless of what they do. One chooses to take the side of “good” by being loyal to the “good” tribe, a.k.a., “us.”
An example of the importance of archetypes in rightie thought can be found in the blogosphere’s reaction to homicides allegedly (she hasn’t been tried yet) committed by Alabama University professor Amy Bishop. Like most leftie bloggers I haven’t written about Bishop because, to me, it’s a crime story, and I rarely comment on crime stories.
But a number of rightie bloggers have blown Bishop up into a Big Bleeping Political Deal, pointedly calling her a “leftist” or a “socia-list.” How so? Apparently someone called Bishop a “socialist” on her RateMyProfessors page, so it must be true. Also, she went to Harvard.
In other words, we in Rational World have no way to know any-thing about Bishop’s political beliefs, or even if she has any. Furt-her, there is nothing about the homicides that suggests a political motive, so a rational person wouldn’t think of the homicides in political terms. Some are claiming a racial motive, because the three individuals killed were non-white, but one of the people she shot who survived is very obviously white. Since these were people Bishop knew, it’s not unreasonable to assume her motives were personal.
But bloggers who have pointed out there is no obvious political component to the Bishop homicides, notably Steve M and Steven Taylor, have been subject to vile counter-attacks from the Right for suggesting the homicides were not political.
The weird truth is, I don’t think the rightie bloggers calling Bishop a “leftist” have said she had a political motive. So why are rightie bloggers making such a Big Bleeping Deal about her alleged poli-tics? Because it so neatly fits the mythological archetype of “left-ist” and “socialist” that lives in their heads, that’s why. As the “A-merican Power” blogger explained, “I have never hypothesized on Bishop’s motives. It’s enough fascination at the simple truth of a Harvard leftist in league with some of our worst criminal murderers and jihadi terrorists.”
Criminal murderers and jihadi terrorists? She went to Harvard. What more do you need to know? People who go to Harvard are like that. And there need be no political motives, or any motives at all, for a “leftist” to be a violent, murdering criminal, because that’s just the way “leftists” are. See how it works?
In fact, suggesting any motivation at all to Bishop, even an evil and irrational motive, seems to enrage some righties, who equate understanding motive with making excuses for the murders. Rational people don’t think that way, of course, but we’re not talking about rational people. We’re talking about people whose worldview is entirely shaped by myth and archetype, not by reason.
Which brings me to why Sarah Palin is a goddess. By that I don’t mean she has actual godlike powers. I’m talking about her role in the rightie mythological cosmos, and why pointing out her obvio-us shortcomings will put no dents in the tea partiers’ loyalty to her.
By “goddess” I mean a goddess in something like (but not exactly) the tantric sense, in which a deity becomes an archetype for one’s own deepest nature. Palin, by contrast, is a near-perfect embodi-ment of an ideal. She is (to a rightie) beautiful, sexual, and mater-nal; she is powerful enough that the Evil Ones who live in Washing-ton and who speak seditious things on the Teevee must kowtow to her. Through her folksy speech and shooting skills she evokes other American archetypes from more wholesome, earlier times, like Daniel Boone. But she also wears modern clothes and has a Facebook page.
Like most tantric deities, Palin has has both benevolent and wrathful aspects. As a wrathful goddess she gives voice to her followers’ deepest fears and hates and resentments. But she also has a bright smile and sometimes carries a baby, showing a benevolent side. Her followers both love her and identify with her; she is an archetype representing their own deepest selves, or at least the selves they’d like to be.
She’s a goddess, I tell you. And because she is a goddess is makes no difference to her devotees that she has few real accomplish-ments, no coherent ideas, and probably doesn’t know Bern from Budapest. It does not matter if she writes crib notes on her hand and needs several months to think of a name of a newspaper she actually reads. In fact, it does not matter to them if she reads at all. Whatever she does is exactly right, because it is her doing it, and she is a goddess.
It’s important to understand this, because it shows us why it’s futile to treat Palin as just another politician or media star. It was pointless to make fun of the crib notes, for example. I doubt any-one could bring Palin down but Palin herself. If she somehow grossly and blatantly violated the ideal she represents, her follo-wers could turn on her. But until she does that, she is invincible in the eyes of the devoted.
There’s a long analysis of the tea party movement in today’s New York Times that’s worth a read. Essentially, the “movement” is a collection of fearful people grasping at incoherent ideas the way drowning people grasp at lifebuoys. It brings to mind what Eric Hoffer wrote in The True Believer (pp. 59-60):
“The power of a mass movement stems from the propensity of its followers for united action and self-sacrifice. … whether or not [organizations] develop into mass movements depends less on the doctrine they preach and the program they project than on the degree of their preoccupation with unity and the readiness for self-sacrifice. … Such diverse phenomena as a deprecation of the present, a facility for make-believe, a proneness to hate, a readi-ness to imitate, credulity, a readiness to attempt the impossible, and many others which crowd the minds of the intensely frustra-ted are, as we shall see, unifying agents and prompters of reckless-ness.”
Because the incoherent ideas the tea partiers grasp are plucked from the American psyche, those ideas can be traced back through earlier times in American history, as Lind says. But the ideas themselves are not the point, and so I disagree with Lind that understanding where ideas come from is key to understan-ding the tea party movement. What unifies the tea partiers is something primitive, pre-cognitive. As Hoffer says elsewhere in The True Believer, fearful people give up individual autonomy to become part of a movement, and within the movement they find the freedom to hate, bully, torment, and torture with impunity — and with the blessings of the goddess Sarah."
Click on the Headline!
Link to The New York Times
söndag, januari 24, 2010
Dominionism and the Ugandan anti Gay Legislation
The links between Dominionism and the proposed Ugandan Legislation are tight. The International (= American) Transfor-mation Network is one, if not the main sponsor together with The Family, a group of Dominionist members of Congress, both Senators and Representatives, who share digs in Washington, but are so far known mostly for their sexual scandals.
The point is to Christianize the Governments of the World through "Christian domination in business and the marketplace", even the "Unification of the marketplace and the pulpit”.
This, I remind you, is the Taliban of the western hemisphere. This is where the Supreme Court’s absurd decision to break with the established wisdom of the last century handing over American politics to lobbyists for big Corporations, makes sense.
The draconic Ugandan proposals are the testing ground. These days they are organising the PrayforNewark Project in Newark, New Jersey.
I refer you to the Link from Talk to Action.
and especially the video in the Link fromTelling Secrets by Elizabeth Kaeton, an Episcopal Priest in The Diocese of Newark.
Also there is this from Rachel Maddow: Maddow: The Uganda-US fundie connection
The point is to Christianize the Governments of the World through "Christian domination in business and the marketplace", even the "Unification of the marketplace and the pulpit”.
This, I remind you, is the Taliban of the western hemisphere. This is where the Supreme Court’s absurd decision to break with the established wisdom of the last century handing over American politics to lobbyists for big Corporations, makes sense.
The draconic Ugandan proposals are the testing ground. These days they are organising the PrayforNewark Project in Newark, New Jersey.
I refer you to the Link from Talk to Action.
and especially the video in the Link fromTelling Secrets by Elizabeth Kaeton, an Episcopal Priest in The Diocese of Newark.
Also there is this from Rachel Maddow: Maddow: The Uganda-US fundie connection
Coup d'Etat in the USA
The United State’s Supreme Court has in a decision, referencing the 1st Amendment on Free Speech, let political campaign money free, also from “general funds” within 60 days of an election. This has been regulated since the Age of the Trusts, lately through the McCain/Feingold Campaign Finance Bill. Direct contribution to candidates as hitherto is not affected.
This is in reality a Coup d'Etat and the political landscape is expected to change from Oligarchy to Corporativism if this decision cannot be circumvented through legislation or yet another Amendment to the Constitution. A critical article on Citizen Link an outlet of Focus on the Family (!) is found under the Headline.
A worrying factor in the background is what is generally called Dominionism. The efforts, since a few decades back, by some Calvinist Sects to establish the OT laws of men as the law of the land, proscribing the Civil Rights of women, gays, and so on. More on that in the next post.
Remains to be seen if the Supreme Court in its decision has not overreached itself… Maybe Chief Justice Roberts is not quite as clever as he thinks.
I refer to what I wrote on the 30th of September 2005 after he was appointed:
The three part Separation of Powers (Europe traditionally has two since the 1st Millennium) of Mr le Baron de la Brède et de Montesquieu gives the Judiciary great and increasing political clout, which – not surprisingly – is politicized in ways unthinkable to us. Local attorneys and judges are politically elected, and federal judges are nominated by the Executive (the President) and confirmed by the Legislative power (the US Senate).
Before the Judiciary Committee of the Senate Roberts – politely but firmly – declined to reveal how he views the Constitution versus Legislation and Civil Rights, or certain well known cases such as Roe versus Wade, and others. He only conceded that precedence is important and often binding, but he wouldn’t way how he would act as Chief Justice.
The latter is to no little degree quite right, because Roberts in reality has been a judge for less than 2 years ;=)
This makes Roberts an unknown entity. Nor has the Administra-tion released more than a fraction of the records the Judiciary Committee asked for from Roberts’ work for the Administration 20 years ago.
One has appointed a man of no properties. In any other system he would – as a matter of course – have been put on waiting for another 5 or 10 years…
Personally I am quite worried about this. Not only because of the choice of a perfectly un-known person to influence American Society (and by implication us all) for the next few decades, but also because of what I know about the English Law Lords.
The British equivalent to the Supreme Court is made up of a dozen Lords of Appeal in Ordinary, supplied by as many others who are no longer in Ordinary, but yet haven't attained the age of 75, or other jurists who have been elevated to the Peerage.
The Lords of Appeal are naturally among the Best, the highest Paid and the Brightest there are, but they are not men without properties.
No one becomes one of the Worlds best Jurists for being brilliant at judicial niceties.
In stead we find among the Lords of Appeal a strong devotion to the Law as such, to the Principles of the Rule by Law, and to Human Rights – precicely what Judge Roberts didn’t have anything to say about.
In the cases I know somewhat closer this comes out of deep personal experience. Several of the Lords of Appeal originate from South Africa and have been formed by their years under Apartheid before they moved to the “motherland” – as it still was those days – and could fulfil their dream to devote themselves to the Value and Rights of Human Beings.
In one case I know that this devotion goes back yet another generation – to that of my Grandparents – and an insight about the horrors of Nazism, in a life-long effort, all from the 1920-ies, in co-operation, also with good persons within the Church of Sweden, for Freedom and Democracy in Europe.
This is in reality a Coup d'Etat and the political landscape is expected to change from Oligarchy to Corporativism if this decision cannot be circumvented through legislation or yet another Amendment to the Constitution. A critical article on Citizen Link an outlet of Focus on the Family (!) is found under the Headline.
A worrying factor in the background is what is generally called Dominionism. The efforts, since a few decades back, by some Calvinist Sects to establish the OT laws of men as the law of the land, proscribing the Civil Rights of women, gays, and so on. More on that in the next post.
Remains to be seen if the Supreme Court in its decision has not overreached itself… Maybe Chief Justice Roberts is not quite as clever as he thinks.
I refer to what I wrote on the 30th of September 2005 after he was appointed:
The three part Separation of Powers (Europe traditionally has two since the 1st Millennium) of Mr le Baron de la Brède et de Montesquieu gives the Judiciary great and increasing political clout, which – not surprisingly – is politicized in ways unthinkable to us. Local attorneys and judges are politically elected, and federal judges are nominated by the Executive (the President) and confirmed by the Legislative power (the US Senate).
Before the Judiciary Committee of the Senate Roberts – politely but firmly – declined to reveal how he views the Constitution versus Legislation and Civil Rights, or certain well known cases such as Roe versus Wade, and others. He only conceded that precedence is important and often binding, but he wouldn’t way how he would act as Chief Justice.
The latter is to no little degree quite right, because Roberts in reality has been a judge for less than 2 years ;=)
This makes Roberts an unknown entity. Nor has the Administra-tion released more than a fraction of the records the Judiciary Committee asked for from Roberts’ work for the Administration 20 years ago.
One has appointed a man of no properties. In any other system he would – as a matter of course – have been put on waiting for another 5 or 10 years…
Personally I am quite worried about this. Not only because of the choice of a perfectly un-known person to influence American Society (and by implication us all) for the next few decades, but also because of what I know about the English Law Lords.
The British equivalent to the Supreme Court is made up of a dozen Lords of Appeal in Ordinary, supplied by as many others who are no longer in Ordinary, but yet haven't attained the age of 75, or other jurists who have been elevated to the Peerage.
The Lords of Appeal are naturally among the Best, the highest Paid and the Brightest there are, but they are not men without properties.
No one becomes one of the Worlds best Jurists for being brilliant at judicial niceties.
In stead we find among the Lords of Appeal a strong devotion to the Law as such, to the Principles of the Rule by Law, and to Human Rights – precicely what Judge Roberts didn’t have anything to say about.
In the cases I know somewhat closer this comes out of deep personal experience. Several of the Lords of Appeal originate from South Africa and have been formed by their years under Apartheid before they moved to the “motherland” – as it still was those days – and could fulfil their dream to devote themselves to the Value and Rights of Human Beings.
In one case I know that this devotion goes back yet another generation – to that of my Grandparents – and an insight about the horrors of Nazism, in a life-long effort, all from the 1920-ies, in co-operation, also with good persons within the Church of Sweden, for Freedom and Democracy in Europe.
söndag, januari 17, 2010
What can happen on Facebook.
I want to talk about Facebook. A while back I was befriended by a lady not of my usual acquaintances, who are generally Episcopali-an, Modern, pro Women, pro Gay and Liberal. I have noticed since that she has befriended several of my acquaintances but I still wonder what her intentions were. What she posts herself is the usual anti Obama propaganda of the Tea Baggers, the Birthers, and so on… Plus the occassional "devotional" which strikes me as just as politic as anything.
But I want to talk about a particular thread. I find it illustrative of the Animosity, Hate and Frustration, which have characterized American Politics lately.
I find this animosity most worrying for the well being and cohe-siveness of American Society – and so for all others (what hap-pens in the USA, happens here 10 years later). And I see it as a residue of both the Americas’ Colonial past.
In Massachusetts the Senate Seat held for many years by late Senator Ted Kennedy, the younger brother of murdered President John. F. K. and Senator Robert K, is up for grabs. The by-election campaign seems to get ruff. Some hope that if the contender Scott Brown (who first ran as Independent and now as Republican) wins the Seat, the Obama Administration’s policies will founder.
Certainly, there will not be the 60 Votes sometimes claimed necessary for (partial!) Health Reform and Economic Restoration.
The post which caused the thread was about the Democratic can-didate in the race, Martha Coakley, the present Attorney General of Massachusetts. It consisted of little more than a quote, or some-thing presented as a quote by Martha Coakley but had been trun-cated:
"Devout Catholics should not work in the emergency room” with the (wholly unrelated) addition: “This comment is STUNNING These left wingers are so damn arrogant, but I would love for her to say that Muslims should n...”
Further it promised a link to “full article” on something called The Conservative Monster, which lead to a further link called Big Government: What was found was:
BREAKING-Martha Coakley: Devout Catholics ‘Probably Shouldn’t Work in the Emergency Room’
by Jim Hoft
“You can have religious freedom but you probably shouldn’t work in the emergency room.”
Democrat Martha Coakley was on with Ken Pittman from WBSM in Massachusetts today. Martha told Ken that if you object to abortion and are a devout Catholic then…
“You probably shouldn’t work in the emergency room.”
Upon which follows a Youtube with the radio interview in question and this transcript (note the misspellings!) from 1 minute in:
Ken Pittman: Right, if you are a Catholic, and believe what the Pope teaches that any form of birth control is a sin. ah you don’t want to do that.
Martha Coakley: No we have a seperation of church and state Ken, lets be clear.
Ken Pittman: In the emergency room you still have your religious freedom.
Martha Coakley: (……uh, eh…um..) The law says that people are allowed to have that. You can have religious freedom but you probably shouldn’t work in the emergency room.”
So the full quote actually says: “The law says that people are allowed to have that; you can have religious freedom, but you probably shouldn’t work in the Emergency Room.”
I cannot emphasize enough how worrying I find the present poli-tical climate in the USA! The Animosity, the Hate, the Frustration. Others may discuss the social and economical mechanisms, but I say this: Let there be no more political assassinations ever!
What follows is the Facebook thread from comments 51 to 95 (I wasn’t able to copy the first 50).
Nr 51.
Coakley has the IQ of a flea.... Could you just see what would happen if Scott Brown said Muslims should not work in the ER..... Mainstream Media would have a freaking fit!!!
Nr 52.
Catholics should reject the progressive abortion loving tax hiking liberals - all of them.
Nr 53.
I am busy right now, has Fox reported this yet? They will drill this the next few days I hope
Nr 53.
She sees us, like the rest of them see us. We are pawns, not people..
Nr 54.
What does being a catholic have to do with working in the emergency room? Furthermore, if a woman is raped, THERE ISN'T a contraceptive that can be given to her for treating rape! Not one that we have here in the US anyway! What a moron! I hope MA conservatives come out and vote and make her lose by a landslide!
Nr 55.
I think this dummy was trying to say "Planned Parenthood" because I am not aware of any abortion case in the emergency room.
Nr 53.
Right, my ex worked in delivery, not emergency...
Nr 56.
blah blah blah...she is the idiot feminatzy that we real women just loathe....
Nr 57.
Actally Nick, every time a woman is raped an goes to the hospital they give her the morning after pill. If any pro life woman is in that horrible position, she has to be careful because they generally won't tell you what they are giving you unless you ask.
Nr 58.
Martha Coakley, you are a freak!!! If I worked in an ER, I would even save YOUR SORRY ASS!!!
Nr 59.
I still don't understand why she thinks other religious folks would be okay with it... ??????
Nr 60.
As Forest Gump once said " Stupid is as stupid does"
Nr 61.
So Jesus shouldn't have healed the lame and the blind and the spirit-possessed, and the haemorrhaging woman, and ESPECIALLY not the Official's daughter, the Widow's son and Lazarus, cause THAT was raising someone from the dead, without first having received extreme unction? It is a Christian's duty to give all the help they can to poor and the sick and the heartbroken and the marginalised! Is she the Pope? I'd like to hear HIS take on this!
Nr 62.
Any Devout Christian should leave the ER as soon as they cart her in.....
Nr 63.
OOUT!!!!
Nr 64.
What the hell is wrong with this woman?
Nr 65.
I hope this moronic broad continues to step in it. Between this and The Anointed One, The Deliverer Of Hope And Change, The Narcissistic Osama Hussein Obama coming to campaign for her, the seat that alcoholic Ted Kennedy occupied COULD be taken by a true conservative. Bye bye 60 votes for the 'health care' abortion!
Nr 66.
What is happening to our country? How can we fix this divisive-ness? VOTE FOR SCOTT...let him be the 41st vote...and if they keep him from voting against it...illegalities can be argued...it adds strong creedence to the mounting illegalities...
Nr 67.
What do you think that wacko Coakley will look like in ten years? Scary. What do you think that wacko Coakley will say to voters in Ten years? She won't have anything to offer except party-line politics. Phooey. Martha, go home and disappear.
Nr 68.
Wow. Is that hate speech?
Nr 69.
i'm sure this witch will get her due in the pit
Nr 70.
I hope that woman doesn't get elected.
Nr 71.
WE NEED A NEW WORD FOR ARROGANCE, BECAUSE THE OLD ONE DOESN'T WORK ANYMORE WITH THESE GUYS...PUTS A NEW MEANING INTO ABOVE AND BEYOND...
Nr 67.
No need for a new word for arrogance. There are terms aplenty: Just some on the list include ignoble, out-of-touch, inept, boob (which means foolish), morally bankrupt, glad-handing, and liar. No respect for that politically-motivated dirtball who would rather damn the people than hold an honest town hall meeting.
Nr 61.
I didn't know abortions were performed in the ER! The CHOICE TO ABORT A CHILD IS ELECTIVE SURGERY! In Australia, doctors can choose whether or not they perform them.
Nr 72.
That was the most stupid unintelligent remark anyone could ever make sure hope the Ma people have enough faith not to vote for her. Remember Karma, Martha. what goe around comes around.....
Nr 73.
She said this with BOSTON being so Catholic??? Doesn't she want to win?
Nr 72.
Also it has nothing to do with seperation of chuch and state.It is about morals, faith and beliefs...not government. This is how the defend their conscience by saying seperation of church and state. How stupid do they think the American people are. We are much more intelligent that this group in congress/
Nr 67.
It is possible that this endeared '' Freedom of Choice '' is not really about freedom at all? By that definition, a FORCED HELL-CARE mandate is NOT freedom of choice. Therefore, Reid can stick his hell-care bill up his sorry ass
Nr 67.
For those who don't get it: Roe V. Wade is supposedly a '' freedom of choice '' issue. I never agreed with that, but if that is the way the court ruled, then let's apply that same decision about freedom of choice regarding health insurance. By that very definition of freedom of choice, congress cannot force their hell-care on anyone nor require anyone to buy something. After all, it is not a '' free choice '' (and ps, SCREW YOU NANCY PELOSI )
Nr 73.
Hope Coakley doesn't run into a devout Republican in the ER.All kidding aside, though, if something like THAT were to ever happen, you can be damned sure it wouldn't be on the Republican side.
Nr 74.
That is one of the sickest and most senseless remarks I've ever heard. Keep talking, honey, you're taking us straight to victory.
Nr 75.
Get ready to see ACORN, SEIU, & BLACK PANTHERS at the voters box in Massachusetts. No telling what may happen!!
Nr 76.
Lord, I hope she loses, she purposely got the Governor to against the parole board recommendation to commute the sentence of an innocent man, if she loses it will be as much for that as for being a Dem, she is a thoroughly despised woman in Massachusetts, not just by Republicans.
Nr 77.
The so called "elite" are on a "power high", or they are just HIGH on mind altering drugs.....It blows me away!!!Maybe the Dems. and some Republicans should remember the words of ol' Abe.....In fact, I like it so much I am going to post it:"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt." - ... Visa mer-- Abraham Lincoln
Nr 76.
What an arrogant witch, no wonder she is so liked in Mass. NOT
Nr 67.
Frankly, it should be that national guard is deployed to the polls just to make certain that those goods from acron, and seiu, and panthers are warned away. (By the way: None of those groups deserve capitalization)
Nr 53.
Get ready for ACORN to recruit 30,000 Haitians for the revolution....
Nr 78.
I'm really amazed at the devout Catholics who vote liberal! Here they are, professing their belief in Catholicism and yet voting for the party that supports unrestricted abotions!! I just don't get it!! One of my inlaws is Catholic and yet always votes democrat!!! How does that work anyway???
Nr 79.
I hope you win! Mass needs you!!!
Nr 80.
@Doug, I'm with you on that question. I read a post by a Catholic who wondered how any Catholic would be right-wing. Then she went on about JFK being Democrat. Most of us realize JFK would in all probability be anything but a socialist democrat of today.
Nr 81.
It's great to see the people paying attention!
Nr 82.
Wow. That's a lot of comments. I got nothing more to add. Ok. I do.... She also refused to prosecute a child sex offender as the DA. How does someone like this even move up in the ranks. Wake up MA!!! You can change the image of your state in one election. Next we need a Mitt/ huckabee ticket (in any order)!!!
Nr 81.
That is exactly what our political system says is ok... If you or your family are politicaly connected then it's ok for you to do wrong. Ie: no paying taxes, sexualy abusing women, disregarding the constitution, etc. It is because we became complacent that we find our country in this position today!We, The American People, have to be relentless in... Visa mer our personal fight against the same type of tyrany we fought so hard to seperate ourselves from during the FIRST American revolution. This my friends, should be the start of the second. This election in Mass. on Tue. will let us know if people are waking up!
Nr 83.
Right on Nr 3. Haitians will be coming here!!!
Nr 53.
People of MASS? Get your act together, because YOUR votes has ruined this country. Kerry and Kennedy? ENOUGH SAID...
Your's truly ;=)
Context, context." Text without context is pretext."
Nr 84.
what a horses ass.
Nr 85.
Hey, Martha, I got one for ya..."Devout Socialists should not work in government!"
Nr 86.
It's time lying politicans bite their lips, and maybe the venomthey have been spitting out will make them so sick, they will just become weak and will fall from power...We can hopecan't we?????
And this is only 36 out of 96…
Another Post from the same lady: Poster through PP:
Obama, Dems cut deal to exempt union health care from taxes Washington Examiner www.washingtonexaminer.com
The White House has agreed to concessions in its health care legislation aimed at sparing union workers the bulk of a new tax. We have seen tremendous progress over the last couple of days,
NN
Can we exempt bho rahm pelosi jarrett islamists axelrod michelle and soros from the WH?
There are several more.
But I want to talk about a particular thread. I find it illustrative of the Animosity, Hate and Frustration, which have characterized American Politics lately.
I find this animosity most worrying for the well being and cohe-siveness of American Society – and so for all others (what hap-pens in the USA, happens here 10 years later). And I see it as a residue of both the Americas’ Colonial past.
In Massachusetts the Senate Seat held for many years by late Senator Ted Kennedy, the younger brother of murdered President John. F. K. and Senator Robert K, is up for grabs. The by-election campaign seems to get ruff. Some hope that if the contender Scott Brown (who first ran as Independent and now as Republican) wins the Seat, the Obama Administration’s policies will founder.
Certainly, there will not be the 60 Votes sometimes claimed necessary for (partial!) Health Reform and Economic Restoration.
The post which caused the thread was about the Democratic can-didate in the race, Martha Coakley, the present Attorney General of Massachusetts. It consisted of little more than a quote, or some-thing presented as a quote by Martha Coakley but had been trun-cated:
"Devout Catholics should not work in the emergency room” with the (wholly unrelated) addition: “This comment is STUNNING These left wingers are so damn arrogant, but I would love for her to say that Muslims should n...”
Further it promised a link to “full article” on something called The Conservative Monster, which lead to a further link called Big Government: What was found was:
BREAKING-Martha Coakley: Devout Catholics ‘Probably Shouldn’t Work in the Emergency Room’
by Jim Hoft
“You can have religious freedom but you probably shouldn’t work in the emergency room.”
Democrat Martha Coakley was on with Ken Pittman from WBSM in Massachusetts today. Martha told Ken that if you object to abortion and are a devout Catholic then…
“You probably shouldn’t work in the emergency room.”
Upon which follows a Youtube with the radio interview in question and this transcript (note the misspellings!) from 1 minute in:
Ken Pittman: Right, if you are a Catholic, and believe what the Pope teaches that any form of birth control is a sin. ah you don’t want to do that.
Martha Coakley: No we have a seperation of church and state Ken, lets be clear.
Ken Pittman: In the emergency room you still have your religious freedom.
Martha Coakley: (……uh, eh…um..) The law says that people are allowed to have that. You can have religious freedom but you probably shouldn’t work in the emergency room.”
So the full quote actually says: “The law says that people are allowed to have that; you can have religious freedom, but you probably shouldn’t work in the Emergency Room.”
I cannot emphasize enough how worrying I find the present poli-tical climate in the USA! The Animosity, the Hate, the Frustration. Others may discuss the social and economical mechanisms, but I say this: Let there be no more political assassinations ever!
What follows is the Facebook thread from comments 51 to 95 (I wasn’t able to copy the first 50).
Nr 51.
Coakley has the IQ of a flea.... Could you just see what would happen if Scott Brown said Muslims should not work in the ER..... Mainstream Media would have a freaking fit!!!
Nr 52.
Catholics should reject the progressive abortion loving tax hiking liberals - all of them.
Nr 53.
I am busy right now, has Fox reported this yet? They will drill this the next few days I hope
Nr 53.
She sees us, like the rest of them see us. We are pawns, not people..
Nr 54.
What does being a catholic have to do with working in the emergency room? Furthermore, if a woman is raped, THERE ISN'T a contraceptive that can be given to her for treating rape! Not one that we have here in the US anyway! What a moron! I hope MA conservatives come out and vote and make her lose by a landslide!
Nr 55.
I think this dummy was trying to say "Planned Parenthood" because I am not aware of any abortion case in the emergency room.
Nr 53.
Right, my ex worked in delivery, not emergency...
Nr 56.
blah blah blah...she is the idiot feminatzy that we real women just loathe....
Nr 57.
Actally Nick, every time a woman is raped an goes to the hospital they give her the morning after pill. If any pro life woman is in that horrible position, she has to be careful because they generally won't tell you what they are giving you unless you ask.
Nr 58.
Martha Coakley, you are a freak!!! If I worked in an ER, I would even save YOUR SORRY ASS!!!
Nr 59.
I still don't understand why she thinks other religious folks would be okay with it... ??????
Nr 60.
As Forest Gump once said " Stupid is as stupid does"
Nr 61.
So Jesus shouldn't have healed the lame and the blind and the spirit-possessed, and the haemorrhaging woman, and ESPECIALLY not the Official's daughter, the Widow's son and Lazarus, cause THAT was raising someone from the dead, without first having received extreme unction? It is a Christian's duty to give all the help they can to poor and the sick and the heartbroken and the marginalised! Is she the Pope? I'd like to hear HIS take on this!
Nr 62.
Any Devout Christian should leave the ER as soon as they cart her in.....
Nr 63.
OOUT!!!!
Nr 64.
What the hell is wrong with this woman?
Nr 65.
I hope this moronic broad continues to step in it. Between this and The Anointed One, The Deliverer Of Hope And Change, The Narcissistic Osama Hussein Obama coming to campaign for her, the seat that alcoholic Ted Kennedy occupied COULD be taken by a true conservative. Bye bye 60 votes for the 'health care' abortion!
Nr 66.
What is happening to our country? How can we fix this divisive-ness? VOTE FOR SCOTT...let him be the 41st vote...and if they keep him from voting against it...illegalities can be argued...it adds strong creedence to the mounting illegalities...
Nr 67.
What do you think that wacko Coakley will look like in ten years? Scary. What do you think that wacko Coakley will say to voters in Ten years? She won't have anything to offer except party-line politics. Phooey. Martha, go home and disappear.
Nr 68.
Wow. Is that hate speech?
Nr 69.
i'm sure this witch will get her due in the pit
Nr 70.
I hope that woman doesn't get elected.
Nr 71.
WE NEED A NEW WORD FOR ARROGANCE, BECAUSE THE OLD ONE DOESN'T WORK ANYMORE WITH THESE GUYS...PUTS A NEW MEANING INTO ABOVE AND BEYOND...
Nr 67.
No need for a new word for arrogance. There are terms aplenty: Just some on the list include ignoble, out-of-touch, inept, boob (which means foolish), morally bankrupt, glad-handing, and liar. No respect for that politically-motivated dirtball who would rather damn the people than hold an honest town hall meeting.
Nr 61.
I didn't know abortions were performed in the ER! The CHOICE TO ABORT A CHILD IS ELECTIVE SURGERY! In Australia, doctors can choose whether or not they perform them.
Nr 72.
That was the most stupid unintelligent remark anyone could ever make sure hope the Ma people have enough faith not to vote for her. Remember Karma, Martha. what goe around comes around.....
Nr 73.
She said this with BOSTON being so Catholic??? Doesn't she want to win?
Nr 72.
Also it has nothing to do with seperation of chuch and state.It is about morals, faith and beliefs...not government. This is how the defend their conscience by saying seperation of church and state. How stupid do they think the American people are. We are much more intelligent that this group in congress/
Nr 67.
It is possible that this endeared '' Freedom of Choice '' is not really about freedom at all? By that definition, a FORCED HELL-CARE mandate is NOT freedom of choice. Therefore, Reid can stick his hell-care bill up his sorry ass
Nr 67.
For those who don't get it: Roe V. Wade is supposedly a '' freedom of choice '' issue. I never agreed with that, but if that is the way the court ruled, then let's apply that same decision about freedom of choice regarding health insurance. By that very definition of freedom of choice, congress cannot force their hell-care on anyone nor require anyone to buy something. After all, it is not a '' free choice '' (and ps, SCREW YOU NANCY PELOSI )
Nr 73.
Hope Coakley doesn't run into a devout Republican in the ER.All kidding aside, though, if something like THAT were to ever happen, you can be damned sure it wouldn't be on the Republican side.
Nr 74.
That is one of the sickest and most senseless remarks I've ever heard. Keep talking, honey, you're taking us straight to victory.
Nr 75.
Get ready to see ACORN, SEIU, & BLACK PANTHERS at the voters box in Massachusetts. No telling what may happen!!
Nr 76.
Lord, I hope she loses, she purposely got the Governor to against the parole board recommendation to commute the sentence of an innocent man, if she loses it will be as much for that as for being a Dem, she is a thoroughly despised woman in Massachusetts, not just by Republicans.
Nr 77.
The so called "elite" are on a "power high", or they are just HIGH on mind altering drugs.....It blows me away!!!Maybe the Dems. and some Republicans should remember the words of ol' Abe.....In fact, I like it so much I am going to post it:"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt." - ... Visa mer-- Abraham Lincoln
Nr 76.
What an arrogant witch, no wonder she is so liked in Mass. NOT
Nr 67.
Frankly, it should be that national guard is deployed to the polls just to make certain that those goods from acron, and seiu, and panthers are warned away. (By the way: None of those groups deserve capitalization)
Nr 53.
Get ready for ACORN to recruit 30,000 Haitians for the revolution....
Nr 78.
I'm really amazed at the devout Catholics who vote liberal! Here they are, professing their belief in Catholicism and yet voting for the party that supports unrestricted abotions!! I just don't get it!! One of my inlaws is Catholic and yet always votes democrat!!! How does that work anyway???
Nr 79.
I hope you win! Mass needs you!!!
Nr 80.
@Doug, I'm with you on that question. I read a post by a Catholic who wondered how any Catholic would be right-wing. Then she went on about JFK being Democrat. Most of us realize JFK would in all probability be anything but a socialist democrat of today.
Nr 81.
It's great to see the people paying attention!
Nr 82.
Wow. That's a lot of comments. I got nothing more to add. Ok. I do.... She also refused to prosecute a child sex offender as the DA. How does someone like this even move up in the ranks. Wake up MA!!! You can change the image of your state in one election. Next we need a Mitt/ huckabee ticket (in any order)!!!
Nr 81.
That is exactly what our political system says is ok... If you or your family are politicaly connected then it's ok for you to do wrong. Ie: no paying taxes, sexualy abusing women, disregarding the constitution, etc. It is because we became complacent that we find our country in this position today!We, The American People, have to be relentless in... Visa mer our personal fight against the same type of tyrany we fought so hard to seperate ourselves from during the FIRST American revolution. This my friends, should be the start of the second. This election in Mass. on Tue. will let us know if people are waking up!
Nr 83.
Right on Nr 3. Haitians will be coming here!!!
Nr 53.
People of MASS? Get your act together, because YOUR votes has ruined this country. Kerry and Kennedy? ENOUGH SAID...
Your's truly ;=)
Context, context." Text without context is pretext."
Nr 84.
what a horses ass.
Nr 85.
Hey, Martha, I got one for ya..."Devout Socialists should not work in government!"
Nr 86.
It's time lying politicans bite their lips, and maybe the venomthey have been spitting out will make them so sick, they will just become weak and will fall from power...We can hopecan't we?????
And this is only 36 out of 96…
Another Post from the same lady: Poster through PP:
Obama, Dems cut deal to exempt union health care from taxes Washington Examiner www.washingtonexaminer.com
The White House has agreed to concessions in its health care legislation aimed at sparing union workers the bulk of a new tax. We have seen tremendous progress over the last couple of days,
NN
Can we exempt bho rahm pelosi jarrett islamists axelrod michelle and soros from the WH?
There are several more.
onsdag, januari 13, 2010
Devastating Earthquake in Haiti.
Early this morning (about 5 PM local time) there was a devastating Earthquake in Haiti, just south of Port au Prince. Click on the Headline!
Prayers ascending for Haiti!
Pictures from the BBC
Eglise Episcopal d'Haiti
How to help: Hela Världen
Episcopal Relief and Development Fund
American Oxfam
Médécins sans Frontières
Prayers ascending for Haiti!
Pictures from the BBC
Eglise Episcopal d'Haiti
How to help: Hela Världen
Episcopal Relief and Development Fund
American Oxfam
Médécins sans Frontières
lördag, november 28, 2009
Swedish reaction to Ugandan anti Gay legislation
Translation of todays Article in Dagen (The Day, Pentecostal)
“Sweden may cut its aid to Uganda, if the proposed harsh anti Gay legislation is carried through, Minister for In-ternational Development Cooperation, in the Ministry for Foreign Affairs, Ms Gunilla Carlsson (Conservative) said today in The Daily Echo news programme (Swedish Radio).
According to the proposal Homosexuals may be sentenced to prison or, in the worst case, death.
I think it’s horrible. My Secretary of State has taken this up in direct contact with the (Ugandan) Government. We have expressed our meaning locally and I myself have tried to contact organisations which work with those who are subjected to this oppression in Uganda, Gunilla Carlsson said.
The Minister expresses her particular dismay because Uganda is a country with which Sweden has had liaisons for a very long time.
According to the proposed legislation anyone who is caught having sexual relations with a person of the same gender may get 7 years in gaol. For so called “gross homosexuality” death penalty may be given.
Also persons who fail to denounce persons who are homosexual or work for the civil rights of gay people may be sentenced to gaol.
From 2000 Sweden has given aid to Uganda amounting to on average 330 million Swedish Crowns per year.”
It may be added that the present Ugandan Dictator lived his years of Exile in Gothenburg, Sweden, married a Ugandan and had his 4 children there. It was from Landvetter Airport that he went back to Uganda in triumph in 1986 carrying an attaché suit case full of Dollares of unknown provenance which he originally hadn't declared, which was a crime in those pre EU times of strict monetary regulations…
It obviously wasn't his own money, since when asked to declare it by Airport Security staff, he made an awful fuss... Actually, as I remember it, it was his refusal and untimely accusations of racism that made the Security staff suspicious as to the contents of the suitcase.
In the end he was allowed only to give the name of the Bank through which he had obtained the money. Indeed one wonders who is being the foreign agent here...
Click on the head line to read the original article in Dagen.
Addendum 1.
From Svenska Dagbladet (Conservative): Gunilla Carlsson expressed her horror at the repressive legislation in the making in Uganda, which for a long time has been a recipient of Swedish aid. If the legislation is passed homosexuality may be punished by a death sentence.
– It’s dreadful, especially since this is an oppression directed towards a minority. We have had contacts, and my Secretary of State has taken this up with the Ugandan Government. This is a country we have long term relations to, but it feels rather hopeless.
Question being what this means for the possibility of continued Swedish aid.
– It will be considerably difficult. We may consider withdrawing it in part.
Addendum 2.
I see on my little map that I have a visitor from Uganda...
Addendum 3.
Link to Andrew Brown's comment in The Guardian.
Addendum 4.
Article in the The Examiner
Addendum 5.
Link to Sveriges Radio international.
Addendum 6.
Link to The Times.
Addendium 7.
Box Turtle Bulletin gives the actual text of the proposed draconian legislation.
Addendum 8.
Rachel Maddow has this comment on the American political/religious powers involved in this affair.
Addendum 9, 7th of December
Crickets still chirping at Lambeth Palace... But in less than 12 hours a statement was issued on the election of two assistant Bishops in Los Angeles. Andrew Brown comments in the Guardian .
Thanks to Father Jake Stops the World (right hand bar) for the krickets.
Addendum 10.
Rachel Maddow explains the direct links between the proposed Ugandan legislation and the Washington-based Political/Religious organisation The Family (of the sex scandals and Presidential Prayer Breakfasts), of which both the promotor of this hatefilled legislation and President Museveni are long time members (High Treason, anyone?).
Addendum 11.
Yet another link to Public Eye .
Addendum 12.
Meanwhile, not all is hopeless in Uganda. An editorial in The New Vision , the Regime news paper, makes the claim that the propo-sed legislation shouldn't pass. It seems the American backers aren't so keen on their little Social/Legal/Political experiment, after all...
Silence = Death, whereas speaking up matters.
Addendum 13.
Yet another reaction, yet another link. US Senators do and don't speak up on this inhumane and ill advised proposal. From Rachel Maddow .
“Sweden may cut its aid to Uganda, if the proposed harsh anti Gay legislation is carried through, Minister for In-ternational Development Cooperation, in the Ministry for Foreign Affairs, Ms Gunilla Carlsson (Conservative) said today in The Daily Echo news programme (Swedish Radio).
According to the proposal Homosexuals may be sentenced to prison or, in the worst case, death.
I think it’s horrible. My Secretary of State has taken this up in direct contact with the (Ugandan) Government. We have expressed our meaning locally and I myself have tried to contact organisations which work with those who are subjected to this oppression in Uganda, Gunilla Carlsson said.
The Minister expresses her particular dismay because Uganda is a country with which Sweden has had liaisons for a very long time.
According to the proposed legislation anyone who is caught having sexual relations with a person of the same gender may get 7 years in gaol. For so called “gross homosexuality” death penalty may be given.
Also persons who fail to denounce persons who are homosexual or work for the civil rights of gay people may be sentenced to gaol.
From 2000 Sweden has given aid to Uganda amounting to on average 330 million Swedish Crowns per year.”
It may be added that the present Ugandan Dictator lived his years of Exile in Gothenburg, Sweden, married a Ugandan and had his 4 children there. It was from Landvetter Airport that he went back to Uganda in triumph in 1986 carrying an attaché suit case full of Dollares of unknown provenance which he originally hadn't declared, which was a crime in those pre EU times of strict monetary regulations…
It obviously wasn't his own money, since when asked to declare it by Airport Security staff, he made an awful fuss... Actually, as I remember it, it was his refusal and untimely accusations of racism that made the Security staff suspicious as to the contents of the suitcase.
In the end he was allowed only to give the name of the Bank through which he had obtained the money. Indeed one wonders who is being the foreign agent here...
Click on the head line to read the original article in Dagen.
Addendum 1.
From Svenska Dagbladet (Conservative): Gunilla Carlsson expressed her horror at the repressive legislation in the making in Uganda, which for a long time has been a recipient of Swedish aid. If the legislation is passed homosexuality may be punished by a death sentence.
– It’s dreadful, especially since this is an oppression directed towards a minority. We have had contacts, and my Secretary of State has taken this up with the Ugandan Government. This is a country we have long term relations to, but it feels rather hopeless.
Question being what this means for the possibility of continued Swedish aid.
– It will be considerably difficult. We may consider withdrawing it in part.
Addendum 2.
I see on my little map that I have a visitor from Uganda...
Addendum 3.
Link to Andrew Brown's comment in The Guardian.
Addendum 4.
Article in the The Examiner
Addendum 5.
Link to Sveriges Radio international.
Addendum 6.
Link to The Times.
Addendium 7.
Box Turtle Bulletin gives the actual text of the proposed draconian legislation.
Addendum 8.
Rachel Maddow has this comment on the American political/religious powers involved in this affair.
Addendum 9, 7th of December
Crickets still chirping at Lambeth Palace... But in less than 12 hours a statement was issued on the election of two assistant Bishops in Los Angeles. Andrew Brown comments in the Guardian .
Thanks to Father Jake Stops the World (right hand bar) for the krickets.
Addendum 10.
Rachel Maddow explains the direct links between the proposed Ugandan legislation and the Washington-based Political/Religious organisation The Family (of the sex scandals and Presidential Prayer Breakfasts), of which both the promotor of this hatefilled legislation and President Museveni are long time members (High Treason, anyone?).
Addendum 11.
Yet another link to Public Eye .
Addendum 12.
Meanwhile, not all is hopeless in Uganda. An editorial in The New Vision , the Regime news paper, makes the claim that the propo-sed legislation shouldn't pass. It seems the American backers aren't so keen on their little Social/Legal/Political experiment, after all...
Silence = Death, whereas speaking up matters.
Addendum 13.
Yet another reaction, yet another link. US Senators do and don't speak up on this inhumane and ill advised proposal. From Rachel Maddow .
söndag, november 08, 2009
Consecrations at Upsala Cathedral
Arch-Bishop Anders Wejryd today consecrated the new Bishops of Härnösand, Tuulikki Koivunen Bylund, formerly Dean of Upsala and Stockholm, Eva Brunne, formerly Diocesan Dean of Stock-holm, at Upsala Cathedral, in the presence of Their Majesties and distinguished guests from far and near. For photos, click on the headline!
torsdag, oktober 22, 2009
Marriage Made Gender Neutral
The General Synod of the Church of Sweden assembled at Uppsala has voted to make Marriage Gender Neutral. 176 Ayes, 62 Noes, 11 Abstentions. In force from November the 1st.
Click on the headline!
Click on the headline!
tisdag, september 08, 2009
New Bishop of Stockholm confirmed.
Ms Eva Brunne was confirmed today as the 8th Bishop of Stock-holm after some legal wrangling (unjustified). Bishop Brunne who was elected by a majority of delegates on the 21st of April is partnered with another woman, who is also a Priest. Bishop Brunne will be consecrated on the 8th of November at Upsala Cathedral together with Finnish born Ms Tuulikki Koivunen Bylund, the new Bishop of Härnösand. Ms Brunne is currently Diocesan Dean of Stockholm and Ms Koivonen Bylund is Dean of Upsala.
lördag, september 05, 2009
Biblical Marriage.
With kind permission of the author, The Reverend William Fleener, Sr, Priest of the Episcopal Diocese of Western Michigan, retired.
“For instance, reading any statements in the Bible about sexual behaviour without recognizing that women were “things”, some-what less than men in completeness of humanity. All women were owned by their fathers until title to them was transferred to their husbands. For a man to have intercourse with a woman who was unmarried was an act of stealing from her father, who could no longer expect to receive a bride price in exchange for “giving a-way” (strange term, because it was a sale, not a gift) his daughter.
For a man to commit adultery was a matter of stealing the pro-perty of her husband.
Also, there were no “temple prostitutes”. Prostitutes sell sex for money. Baal temple priestess were fertile ground in which a man planted his “seed” in order to guarantee that Baal would bless his planting of seed in his land and his wife and the planting of seed by his male animals in his female animals. At the time of “planting” in the priestess, an offering was given to the Baal temple, but it was not to pay for the sex act.
By the time the Hebrews spread into the land after the Exodus, the Baalists had found out that some men’s families were in danger of not having good crops because those men could not respond to the female bodies of the priestess and plant their seed in them. The had chosen a few of such men and made them priests, to which the same-sex oriented family heads could go to plant their seed and guarantee Baal’s gift of grain to feed their families.
The women counted for nothing except receptacles, and inter-course with them was considered essential to good crops, not as stealing/adultery.
Such acts were abominations, not morally because they were adultery or same-sex sexual activity, but because they were acts of worship of Baal, not Yahweh, and made a man “unclean” and thus excluded from Yahweh worship.
Asking the people who had been farming the “promised” land for many generations how to guarantee good crops was no different from the English colonists in this country following the advice of Native Americans to put a bit of fish in with each mound of 4-5 corn seeds. The difference between the two is that the colonists considered the American Indians to be ignorant savages, and missed the “worship” content of the natives’ connection with the land and the Great Spirit who had given the land.
“The plain meaning of Scripture” has to take into account the meaning the words had to the original writers and hearers, not just what the words seem to us to convey in Century 21.
By the way, God seems to have negated the custom of ownership of women when Mary of Nazareth didn’t have to ask the Angel to wait, while she asked her father and Joseph for permission to accept her “call” to bear the Christ child. I look no farther than Luke 1:26-38 for the origin of the feminist movement. It took us a very long time to hear God saying women could make their own decisions, and we didn’t hear it until that idea gained popularity in our society, but it was our message originally.”
Pinched from the House of Bishops/House of Deputies (of the Epis-copal Church) list.
PS The Reverend Fleener has kindly let me know than anyone interested is free to reprint this.
“For instance, reading any statements in the Bible about sexual behaviour without recognizing that women were “things”, some-what less than men in completeness of humanity. All women were owned by their fathers until title to them was transferred to their husbands. For a man to have intercourse with a woman who was unmarried was an act of stealing from her father, who could no longer expect to receive a bride price in exchange for “giving a-way” (strange term, because it was a sale, not a gift) his daughter.
For a man to commit adultery was a matter of stealing the pro-perty of her husband.
Also, there were no “temple prostitutes”. Prostitutes sell sex for money. Baal temple priestess were fertile ground in which a man planted his “seed” in order to guarantee that Baal would bless his planting of seed in his land and his wife and the planting of seed by his male animals in his female animals. At the time of “planting” in the priestess, an offering was given to the Baal temple, but it was not to pay for the sex act.
By the time the Hebrews spread into the land after the Exodus, the Baalists had found out that some men’s families were in danger of not having good crops because those men could not respond to the female bodies of the priestess and plant their seed in them. The had chosen a few of such men and made them priests, to which the same-sex oriented family heads could go to plant their seed and guarantee Baal’s gift of grain to feed their families.
The women counted for nothing except receptacles, and inter-course with them was considered essential to good crops, not as stealing/adultery.
Such acts were abominations, not morally because they were adultery or same-sex sexual activity, but because they were acts of worship of Baal, not Yahweh, and made a man “unclean” and thus excluded from Yahweh worship.
Asking the people who had been farming the “promised” land for many generations how to guarantee good crops was no different from the English colonists in this country following the advice of Native Americans to put a bit of fish in with each mound of 4-5 corn seeds. The difference between the two is that the colonists considered the American Indians to be ignorant savages, and missed the “worship” content of the natives’ connection with the land and the Great Spirit who had given the land.
“The plain meaning of Scripture” has to take into account the meaning the words had to the original writers and hearers, not just what the words seem to us to convey in Century 21.
By the way, God seems to have negated the custom of ownership of women when Mary of Nazareth didn’t have to ask the Angel to wait, while she asked her father and Joseph for permission to accept her “call” to bear the Christ child. I look no farther than Luke 1:26-38 for the origin of the feminist movement. It took us a very long time to hear God saying women could make their own decisions, and we didn’t hear it until that idea gained popularity in our society, but it was our message originally.”
Pinched from the House of Bishops/House of Deputies (of the Epis-copal Church) list.
PS The Reverend Fleener has kindly let me know than anyone interested is free to reprint this.
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